Originally Posted By cmpaley >>>>Well, considering that "no unclean thing" will be in heaven, it stands to reason that there's something that happens between death and entry into heaven.<< Digress away. I think it also stands to reason that our entry into Heaven is what cleanses us completely rather than having to wait in a celestial Ellis Island. Especially since Scripture doesn't say anything about an after-death cleansing period.<< Not explicitly, but it is implied. From what I understand about purgatory, it's not a "waiting period" or another "place" between heaven and earth. It's the process that a soul with imperfections will go through "en route" to heaven. A soul that has been purified here on earth, either through progressive sanctification of martyrdom (the Church teaches that a Christian who is killed because of their faith while in the State of Grace goes directly to heaven) doesn't suffer the fires of purgatory because the soul burns with the same fires of love and cleanses a soul being purged. I've heard it said that heaven will be hotter than hell because of the fire of eternal and perfect love that burns in its King and inhabitants. Remember, the Bible says that "God is a consuming fire." What's cool is that the fire doesn't burn the pure soul but is a joy and pleasure because the soul burns with the same fire of love and love. *Sigh* It's hard to explain but easy to visualize ones a person's been looking at Catholic theology long enough. lol
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: Of course most of the discussions about religious doctrine are lost on agnostics and atheists. What should be done with members of those groups--if they happen to live in America?
Originally Posted By cmpaley What do you mean? Is discussion of religion a problem for atheists or agnostics? Whatever happened to freedom of speech and of religion? Or is it supposed to be that only non-religious people can speak their minds? I never understood this hypersensitivity of people who claim to not believe in God to get so offended whenever He's brought up. If he doesn't exist, then we're just a bunch of fools talking aobut fairy tales and it's of no consequence...but if He does exist, then it's probably pretty scary to those who aren't convinced of His nonexistence. Just sayin'
Originally Posted By woody "What should be DONE with members of those groups--if they happen to live in America?" Does Salem ring a bell? You witches!!! LOL!!! I think you should do nothing. What is there to do? I haven't a clue.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad I am coming in way late on this thread but IMHO the scripture, (and I assume you mean like the Bible or whatever) clearly states Paradise and Heaven as two different places. Also I have often wondered about Adam and Eve having three sons, yet we decended from them? There are many things in the Bible that seem to contradict something else however there are easy and clear explanations to them all. My point is, no matter what you personally believe, I think it's unfair to disrespect someone for their beliefs just because they may be different than your own. In light of the original topic, Pat Robertson is a man. I do NOT like the guy, but still he has his right to do and say whatever he wants to. I sort of think of him as being self-destructive eventually.
Originally Posted By mrichmondj For those out there who do LIKE Pat Robertson, feel free to come visit me sometime in Hampton Roads, VA -- the 24-7 Pat Robertson world headquarters. It is down-right freaky the way some people revere this man here. I think the folks at Regent University are putting something in the water, by the way -- which is why I am very reluctant to drink anything that doesn't come from a bottle!
Originally Posted By gadzuux You live there!? Really? How awful for you. I cannot imagine what life would be like if I were somehow trapped in a community like that. Unthinkable.
Originally Posted By mrichmondj The 700 Club zombies actually provide good comic relief on occasion -- it's not all that bad! And I swear, 1 out of every 2 cars has a Jesus fish on it!
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: Me thinks, cmpaley duckling, that there has been a slight misunderstanding between us. Of course religious people have every right to express an opinion. The point that I was trying to make had to do with passing laws in America that are in danger of being crafted by those with a particular religious agenda in mind--that might potentially impose harm on non-believers. For instance, if a law was passed that said everyone in America HAD to go to Church on a a particular day of the week, how is that fair to an agnostic or an athiest? It obviously infringes on THEIR rights to not worship at all. Therefore, any talk about religious doctrine--as a motivation for creating certain laws--is totally lost on them. Hence the question: how do law makers fairly take such groups into consideration when passing secular laws? ORWEN: Lately it seems that there's this movement afoot--within certain Christian communities--who would if they could--impose their religious agendas upon everyone in America. That's what we're against.
Originally Posted By cape cod joe DVC-----you are frightening me as I've always thought I was so unique but the way you come across with the IMHO and respect for everyone, it seems eerily like me. I don't know if that's good for you as I'm not exactly popular here.))))) Have a great Sunday as you seem like such a great human being and your family is blessed to have you!
Originally Posted By JeffG Cape Cod Joe, you really need to drop the "I'm more openminded than everyone else" nonsense. It is irritating and, frankly, exceptionally rude. It also doesn't appear to be remotely true. -Jeff
Originally Posted By cape cod joe Boy--first the other post and now here. You are having issues here and you just proved my point. Show me one time when you have been open minded? Maybe apologize to me now for these 2 personal attacks. That would prove me wrong> You are rude as you just called me to the carpet twice (once on someone else's joke) and now here Grow up jeff and I did not mean you but now............
Originally Posted By cape cod joe Jeff--read dvc's posts and mine how sensitve we are. You have some issues but please leave us alone here with the personal attacks as you are getting annoying at the laughing place.
Originally Posted By cmpaley >>ORWEN: Lately it seems that there's this movement afoot--within certain Christian communities--who would if they could--impose their religious agendas upon everyone in America. That's what we're against.<< On that, we are agreed. As a prospective Catholic, I do NOT want fundamentalist Christians imposing their version of the faith, which is anathema to most Christians, on the country.
Originally Posted By planodisney I think this topic confirms the fact that fundamentalist christians are the most attacked group of people in the country. Nutballs like cmpaley say they are heretics, because a vast majority of protestants believe in the rapture cmpaley, and the rest of the left wing nutjobs see them only as a bunch of freaks. You guys have such a ridiculously stupid visualisation of these people. I am a fundamentalist christian. I watch the same programs as you, go to the same movies, went to the aerosmith concert a couple weeks ago, travel all over the world, pretty much love everybody, and relish chances to help my fellow citizens. Are those some o fthe horificly terrifing things that cause you left wingers to be so, as you like to say, insensitive and intollerant. Shame on you guys!! You guys are wayyy to smart to live off of stereotypes and hatred of those who differ from you. gadzuux, you live a totally different life than i would ever think about living, and have aseen you post comments about topics from under age sex laws to who knows what else. Stuff that i cant believe someone would actually believe, yet I would never seek to margenalize you as some freak of nature, who the rest of us should make fun of. liberals are, by far, the most intollerant people on the face of the earth. Other than cmpaley and his belief that he hold all religious truth and the rest of us are heretics. you might want to look into martin luther cmpaley, and just why he was disollusioned with catholicism. I wouldnt light into you, if you wouldnt have attacked protestants so frequently, but catholicism contains so many rituals and beliefs that are not defined in scripture.
Originally Posted By planodisney Who wants to impose their version of the faith on you cmpaley? Is it because fundamentalist Christians actively seek to save the lost. What is the difference between that and catholics all over the world speaking about their religion. What are protestants specifically doing that endangers your right to worship in your way, and in the catholic churche. NOTHING!!!
Originally Posted By cmpaley >>Nutballs like cmpaley say they are heretics, because a vast majority of protestants believe in the rapture cmpaley, and the rest of the left wing nutjobs see them only as a bunch of freaks.<< Lutherans? Presbyterians? Episcopalians? Sorry. It's not true. And I am not a "left wing nut job." I'm just totally disillusioned with the Republican Party as it currently presents itself and believe in the social teachings of the Catholic Church as presented in such sublime documents as Rerum Novarum, Mater et Magistra and Deus Caritas Est. I suggest you read them. >>Other than cmpaley and his belief that he hold all religious truth and the rest of us are heretics.<< No, I never said that *I* hold all religous truth. I believe that the fullness of the truth subsists in the teachings of the Catholic Church, but I don't believe that "the rest are heretics." A heretic is a specific thing that most Christians aren't. >>you might want to look into martin luther cmpaley, and just why he was disollusioned with catholicism.<< Luther was right in many of his criticisms of the Catholic Church and the necessary corrections were made at the Council of Trent. He was also very wrong in many aspects of his criticisms because of his hyper scrupulous nature. Stories have been told about his tendency to jump back into the confessional because he was so scrupulous that he felt the need to confess a stray thought. Trust me, I know a LOT about Luther and his teachings considering I used to be a Missouri Synod Lutheran. If you don't believe me, I can provide a record of my membership of Immanual Lutheran Church in Orange. What's interesting is that people who leave the Catholic Church for fundamentalism usually do so with a minimal amount of study and soul searching (it's not a criticism but a fact) but people who convert to the Catholic Church from other forms of Christianity usually do so over a course of a long period of study and soul searching. I'm an example of this.
Originally Posted By planodisney Gosh, I swore I was going to stay away from this section for a while, because the religious bigotry was realy getting to me. I hate the way it makes me come across, as my anger gets the best of me. Dont forget that some of us are the people who you feel are so evil. When you know that you are a good person, and truly care about your fellow man, it is sooo frustrating to be marginalized, made fun of, and generally talked about like some of you are talking about people who believe like I do. cmpaley, i am sorry for calling you a nutjob, as i know you were just expressing your opinion. And, i know that not ALL liberals are nutjobs.
Originally Posted By cmpaley Plano, I don't believe you are personally evil. I do believe that many people in the leadership of the religious right ARE quite evil. And I accept your apology. Christ's peace be with you.
Originally Posted By cape cod joe Now if poor Jeff could apologize? When my wife and me had a very "unsuccessful" life we never lashed out at someone like Jeff. Someone else told the joke and he lashed out at me???????? I won't namecall like Plano but shhheeeessshhh! That "frankly" is my biggest pet peave in the english language as the innuendo is obviously everything else one says is bull. Poor Jeff frankly?)) My daughter didn't die and I'm stoked so I hope Jeff well too, more than he wishes me.
