Originally Posted By monorailblue Speaking of bad CM information--sometimes, even the "official" information given to CMs is worth nothing. Example: I worked Monorail during most of the DCA construction. Especially after the new DTD station openend, the 'official' information was that DCA was going to be a runaway hit, that the turnstiles would be closed every day as the park reached capacity, etc., etc. We spieled about the new rides, the new shows, the exquisite dining, and were given all the 'official' predictions for a madhouse of Guests. We all know how undeniably wrong all that 'official' information actually was.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<I worked Monorail during most of the DCA construction. Especially after the new DTD station openend, the 'official' information was that DCA was going to be a runaway hit>> That was not information, that was a hope and prediction. We are discussing the difference between a rumor and fact, not a forecast and a failure to meet expectations.
Originally Posted By lesmisfan i for one would love to see another peoplemover. it was one of my favorite things to do when disneyland had them in TL. I was thrilled to see some sort of peoplemover over at disney world when i was down there and rode it countless times. loved it! and they better put the rockets back on the roof were they belong. I never really liked the rockets after they were moved to the ground, its just not as fun anymore since your not as high up
Originally Posted By monorailblue trek--why is everyone trying to excoriate me today? I understand the difference between a statement of what will be built, and a statement of what will occur once something is. Nevertheless, the information about the expected success of DCA (Disney's California Adventure) was official, to-be-disseminated, that's-my-story-and-I'll-stick-to-it, published, authorized information about the company's expectations. That IS information. And my point is still just as valid--even the official company line is regularly wrong. Let's take a simpler example: The fireworks are at 9:25. People are told this over and over and over and over and over and over and over again all day long. It is official information. It is routinely wrong. So it all relates nicely to the thread. It is an example that highlights the problem in a new, related and expansive way. And you're welcome for it. Now, please get off my back. This is the third attack on me today (not counting the attack on my front-lawn sprinkler last night), and I'm not enjoying it.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<the information about the expected success of DCA (Disney's California Adventure) was official, to-be-disseminated, that's-my-story-and-I'll-stick-to-it, published, authorized information about the company's expectations. That IS information.>> I wasn't there, but IMO the point of disseminating such information is to prepare the cast to be ready for business. It's better to be overprepared than underprepared... and of course they are going to hype their product to both employees and the public. That does not seem stupid or wrong to me.
Originally Posted By oc_dean Okay Tang ..... it's time for you to step into my office, and as long as we are getting into alter egos .... how's about we see yours? Wangaroa? Correct me if I'm wrong brother. Now sees here man........ You spoke AS IF the exact same 1965 design is going to adorn the abandoned track now going into it's SEVENTH year. Ah-Ah! No sir-ee .... I highly doubt that is in their plan. So, how is that you can say a brand new Peoplemover design 40 years later 'is a step backwards'? And I understand you'd like to see something that runs faster ... but as management DOES need to put the focus on FAMILY attractions .. anything remotely close to Rocket Rods/Rollercoaster speeds is going to leave the little ones out, along with most senior citizens. (Not to mention the fact we all have already been through ... retrofitting the entire track through every building to handle the speeds is far more than the beancounters are willing to do.) Why is it that Tomorrowland cannot have it's leisurely 15 minute tour back .... as the first one did have an incredible capacity of 4,480 people per hour?! That's EVEN higher than Pirates of the Caribben which is about HALF! Especially on days where it is unbearably packed .. Peoplemover II will be a huge welcome! >>but after 30 years it just wasn't that popular anymore and hardly worth the huge maintenance budget.<< I've made this point before ... I even feel like I've had to bring it up one too many times .. and I'm gonna say this AGAIN..... Tomorrowland went through an ugly L-O-N-G decline brother. It all started with America Sings closing in April 1988 (which stayed closed for the next TEN years). One by one ..... attractions, restaurants closed ...... Mission to Mars was next in 1992. Same year ... the Space Place restaurant. Next came the Skyway in 1994. All around ... the World On The Move Tomorrowland was starting to look like a ghetto. Okay .. now picture ... you're boarding the Peoplemover in those shabby, abandoned building,ghetto years .... and guess what ......... taking this "bird's eye view" is only making you more depressed. 50% of the novelty of the ride is gone! And with 62 trains @ 4,480 per hour the ghetto years of Tomorrowland (1988-1995) the number of people was NATURALLY going to be slim. Now lets look at the picture in the real world surrounding Disneyland..... The very county Disneyland resides in .... Orange ..... in 2006 can't get it's first mass transit sytem off the ground no matter how bad the 405,91,22,57,5 freeways get!! It's a right-down embarrassment! And even outside the LA Basin ... look around the country ... Show me 40 years later the systems that have spawned since the Peoplemover's debut July 2,1967. Not that many dude! We have a few that go one end of an airport to the other ... but how about where one where it really counts - Like going OUTSIDE an airport (HEAVEN FOR BID ) ... and take you into downtown Whatever City USA! Seatle built one for it's 1961/62? Worlds Fair ... I think after 40 years .. they added what??? ONE more mile to it's 1.5 miles of track for a whopping total of 2.5????? I can go on and on and on and on .... how very little has really been done to bring American cities truly into the new century. THAT HAS YET TO HAPPEN. And because it hasn't ... A Peoplemover excursion is NO WHERE'S near being an out of date concept. No brotha .... It's futuristic. I want to see a mega entertainment co. enthrall and inspire mass transit planners again ...... Someone needs to do it! Let Disneyland be the "stage" for it. And in the meantime .... everyone can get rooftop views of a land that is looking a heck of a lot better than it did 1988-1995! And for those on the ground looking up .... we can once again get into the lively, kinetic feel that a land devoted to the future SHOULD have. Is the future about static buildings with no meandering "arteries" carrying people around? ^^^^^ It's amazing to me how I've found some minds that are so stuck in mid 20th Century way of thinking ... they actually think static buildings standing alone with only doorways at ground floor to get inside that that's the permanent design for forever. Designing the Peoplemover traveling into and out of attractions .. and straight into others .. and then out of them demonstrates so very well how a city can be SO ALIVE .. an artery of these connecting systems .. connecting every building into one Organic Whole ..if that makes any sense. It was a brilliant "thinking outside the box" concept for Walt back in the mid 60s. The land lost that ........ but there is ABSOLUTELY no reason why it should not get that back. - And in the way of a newly designed system!
Originally Posted By sjdimon My $0.02 on this... I know **nothing** official about anything coming to TL or anywhere else in DL for that matter. Now, I would LOVE to see something come back on the PM track - keep it family oriented (i.e. NOT a roller coaster); use a more modern technology to propel the vehicles (I like the idea that no one vehicle can stop and bring the attraction down - so keep the propulsion system on the track) - maybe it could be partially solar or wind powered - I dunno - all I know is that TL has been in a steady state of decline that can be directly attributed to the shuttering of attractions. Once we get the PM back - then something has to be done with Innoventions (which has a place - IMO - at EPCOT - but not at DL). The Carousel Theater is such a unique design - and there are so many "shows" that they could have put in there. I think that time has shown that if you make the attractions "Science Fiction" based, instead of "Science" based - they tend to age a lot better (even though Star Tours is showing it's age - it's still a great attraction (with a fantastic queue) that (with a little makeover) could continue on for years and years to come.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<Let's take a simpler example: The fireworks are at 9:25. People are told this over and over and over and over and over and over and over again all day long. It is official information. It is routinely wrong.>> I am unclear as to how you define "routinely wrong." But regardless, they have to give guests some frame of reference. When guests ask when the fireworks will begin, the answer cannot be, "Oh, sometime tonight."
Originally Posted By GPMike Was there not an earlier rumor that the new ride vehicles on the Peoplemover track would be themed to the Incredibles "egg-shaped" cars on Syndrome's island?
Originally Posted By trekkeruss I don't think that was so much a rumor as it was/is fans dreaming on internet discussion boards. Many concepts born on the internet become rumors over time.
Originally Posted By Futurist Only a thought echoed by posters. An interesting design that would mesh with the "Jetsons" styled 1967 Tomorrowland. IF they ever went that route .. I would hope they would use absolutely no reference to The Incredibles. This is Tomorrowland. Not Toontown.
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORWEN: So, you've come crawling back, have you, Futurist Sweetie!! Even asking who wants a piece of you? Well, I have just one thing to say to you! Bite my Krispy Kreme!!!
Originally Posted By Futurist Hey Orwen ... I gotta message for ya... <a href="http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/tjmikkon/bite_me.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/tj mikkon/bite_me.jpg</a> :~
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORWEN: Hey, you ex-Futuris Sweetie, you! I told you to bite something FIRST!! ORGOCH: Oh, good Lord!! Why don't the two of ya's go git yerself's a room an' do yer bitin' THERE!!!
Originally Posted By tangaroa In replying I figured I would just offer up a more detailed explanation of why I feel the PeopleMover shouldn’t come back. The way I see it, there are really only two different aspects to this problem, the financial one, and the creative one. The financial one has to be the biggest deciding factor when it comes to the executives at Disneyland. Bringing back the PeopleMover as it was in 1967 would be a HUGE financial cost for the company. We’re talking about building over a mile of motorized track plus the cost of building over 40 vehicles. Plus the cost of installing ride control systems and cameras (and probably extra security when the kids start spitting on the folks below), and any repairs needed for the track itself and infrastructure. Oh plus the cost of rebuilding a queue and training the cast. In a world where adding headphones to the Lincoln show costs over 2 million dollars, I can only imagine a PeopleMover replacement would cost nearly 10 times that. And that’s just start-up cost. Then you have to factor in the cost of daily maintenance and inspection of the track and vehicles. When you weigh all of the money that would be required to go into this project you then have to ask… would it be worth it? That’s where the creative argument comes in. Is it worth it to bring back the PeopleMover as it was in 1967? I don’t think it would be. I believe that people today want rides that are faster or laden with more special effects. A nice relaxing train ride is nice, but to borrow a phrase from another local park, people want more bang for their buck, so it would be REALLY hard to convince them to spend 60 dollars now to come and ride the PeopleMover. Disneyland has been successful in building and creating experience with HIGH marketability. A perfect example of this is the submarine voyage. It’s only coming back because they’ve found a way to add high profile characters and branding and combine it with a special effect technology not yet seen in the parks. That’s important because it gives the attraction value above what was there before. In simple bean counter terms: it means that the attraction will actually generate revenue. How would a return of the PeopleMover fit into this profile? Unless they added some Pixar Characters and some sort of laser or projection element, the ride would not have any marketability to the end consumer and would not be able to generate enough revenue to support the high construction and maintenance costs. If Disney were to rebuild the PeopleMover today as a slow moving train ride, I would give it two or maybe three years before the line for the PeopleMover dwindled back down to nothing. And from a purely creative point of view – I do think it’s wrong for a company to go back and rework and rehash something they’ve already done and dish it out to the public as something new. Hollywood is full of cheap remakes now and I think it has seriously hurt the credibility of the film industry, and I think if Disney were to do the same it would hurt their reputation as well. I say Disney shouldn’t rebuild the PeopleMover because it is a step backward creatively and technologically. It’s as if Disney is saying “we must boldly go where we have already been, because we have no more great ideas for attractions.†And why should Disney stay locked in the past? Why should Disney be a slave to nostalgia? I’m sure we can all agree that it would be best for all of Tomorrowland to be gutted and razed and rebuild form scratch – but barring the financial constraints couldn’t we all agree that a better use of the money that would go into a new PeopleMover could instead go into building a suitable attraction where Innoventions is – something we haven’t seen before? Or even a replacement for HISTA? To my mind the money that could go into a PeopleMover would be better spent on a ride or show that WOULD be exciting and would bring people in through the gates in record numbers. If rebuilding the PeopleMover as it was didn’t bring throngs of people through the front gates, it would only prove to the bean counters that money spent on attractions is a waste unless it goes faster, higher, or has lots of characters attached to it. I also think if Disney was really sincere in portraying a view of the future, the last place they should look to for inspiration is 1967. In 1967 the view of the future was a world where machines and technology would do all the work for you, and I think today’s society puts much more value and emphasis on healthier living and staying fit – so perhaps the idea of a transit system designed to take you from one building to the building next door is not all that bright. Perhaps with that in mind they should just turn the PeopleMover track into a walking path – with grass and parkland below it and more room for the crowds above. Turn Tomorrowland into a multilevel complex with rides on the lower level and shops and restaurants on the upper. That would be a more realistic view of the future in my opinion. Americans are already fat enough – they don’t need a ride that does the walking for them. Why not spend the money on a show involving computers or genetics or biochemistry or something that would actually impact the lives of guests in the future? I think that would be a far better use of money. Either that or just build a roller coaster over the old track. Maybe it’s the cynical nature in me, but I’m pretty sure they could spend 10 million to just build a coaster over the track and end up with lines out the door for months and months. For some reason people tend to like cheap thrills over theatrics and presentation. After all, the Rocket Rods always had long lines of people wanting to ride, even up to the day they closed. Despite the bad press and bad reviews, the kids still thought they were awesome, and just the fact that they moved faster than the PeopleMover gave them marketability. Sad but true. Anyway that’s all for my rant today.
Originally Posted By JuiceMonkey To me it's simple. What do you do when you make cause something that works well enough to fail completely? You make it work well enough again. It just seems like the Peoplemover was a really good idea. The track is already there. Disneyland is experiencing a real rebirth, attendance-wise and can benefit from an attraction that can put thousands of people in moving seats for 15 minutes at a time... ...I don't know, I think that even if I didn't like the idea I would be able to see the logic of it.
Originally Posted By JuiceMonkey >>>What do you do when you make cause something that works well enough to fail completely? You make it work well enough again.<<< Wow! That's incoherent! Try this: What do you do when you cause something that works well enough to fail completely? You make it work well enough again.
