Originally Posted By pecos bill I want to go back, its just that I am finding it harder to feel good about going back, especially considering the amount of places I have yet to see in the world. The point is that a lot of us are on the edge as to where we will vacation, and the corporate inspired de-evolution of the parks is making it a lot easier for us to choose alternatives.
Originally Posted By IlikeSteamboat Our last trip to Disneyland was Xmas 2005. We have been gone for awhile now and we are planning on going back Xmas 2008. A year 3 year hiatus will be both good and bad. We have really missed all the changes and honestly Xmas just does not seem like Xmas anywhere else. But the good side is that we have regained some of the excitement that we once had. The last couple of trips have been kind of just going through the motions. We made 15 trips to Disneyland between 2000 and 2005 along with 2 trips to Disney World - with each trip being 9 to 12 days on average. We were sucked into the pin trading for awhile but that fizzled after a couple of years. My real joy is not going there to ride the rides or buy stuff. It is to soak up the atmosphere. We had just hit a saturation point where the feeling was not as strong. Now for reasons beyond our control we have not been back since Xmas 2005. But as I reflect now our next trip will be much more meaningful now that we had some time away.
Originally Posted By woody >>I don't quite get your point, Woody. You're saying people should try other vacation spots. Most people (including Dave, who I assume you're directing your comments towards) HAVE vacationed elsewhere. I don't think there are too many people out there who've never travelled anywhere except DLR and WDW. Also, I don't know why you'd keep going back if you really think it's so juvenile (I assume you DO keep going back due to being on these boards). FWIW, I appreciate Disneyland more now than I did when I was 6.<< You should go back to post 1 where it wasn't me who was complaining about the lack of quality and the dumbing down of the park to toons. I was mostly agreeing and saying you're paying for a lot. As for my own preference, gee, why make it so personal. Why keep going back? Because I have fond memories and I do enjoying going back on occasion. BUT, I'm not nearly the gungho Disney fan as davewasbaloo ("I must have spent 300+ days in the orginal Disneyland, 8 weeks in WDW and 49 vacations at DLP"). Give me a break. I spend much time at these boards, but my vacations at Disney theme parks is not similar at all to davewasbaloo. It's significantly less.
Originally Posted By woody Recap of Post 1... "People who use to love Disney but now feel they have lost their way" "If you feel the same way, it would be wonderful of you to sign up and be counted." FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS.
Originally Posted By Liberty Belle I wasn't "making it personal", I was just asking who you were talking to when you said we should visit the "real" world. Some could argue that it's personal to suggest that people are idiots who've never ventured out into the real world and think that Disneyland is the only vacation option out there, but whatever. >>Why keep going back? Because I have fond memories and I do enjoying going back on occasion.<< Good, I'm glad. It's not necessarily readily apparent that that's the case when you say things like >>Vacationing at DL means a escape to a kiddie version of the world. A fake world of artificial vice and virtue.<< I'm not attacking you for having your opinion, I was questioning why you go to Disneyland when you make it sound pretty unappealing. That was all. I honestly don't see how saying "why keep going back?" makes it "so personal".
Originally Posted By Dyznydad I think it's all been stated very well, but I thought I'd throw this out there. I began going to Disneyland when I was 2. Seriously. My grandparents took me. It was 1968. In the 70's, my family (parents, brother and sister) went about every year around March. We stopped going when my brother, sister and I became teenagers. We were too cool for DL. After I married my wife (at the age of 18), we decided to take a trip. I suggested Disneyland. We had a wonderful time. I began to appreciate the place in a new, romantic, light. Still, I only thought of Disneyland in general terms - it wasn't an obsession. Then, in college, I had to right a paper on a "work of art". I couldn't think of anything, so I jokingly submitted Disneyland as my topic. The professor said yes. This was before the internet, so I had to research the history and building of Disneyland at the library. I became more and more interested as I found old articles, which I would share with my wife, sister and brother. At the same time, my son had just turned 1. We decided to do a "research" trip to the park. For the first time in a long time, my entire family went (my parents, my brother, my sister and my wife). We had so much fun, we went back the next year. My wife and I discovered the APs. We've gone four or five times a year since 1992. In that time, my wife and I had another boy and a girl. They have been going since they were born. Our three children have grown up going to Disneyland. Several times a year. As my two boys hit their teens, they decided they were sick of Disneyland. It was a disappointment to me (though a lightening of the financial burden). Still, I understood, as I had gone through a similar phase as a cool teenager. I also realized it was my fault. It had become my passion, and I had subjected them to it all their lives. I do hope they might come back around one day. I also hope I'm around to enjoy it with them. In the meantime, we've gone out of our way to take trips to other places; San Diego, the Grand Canyon. My wife, daughter and I still go to Disneyland as much as we can. Sometimes just my wife and I. I try to think of Disneyland as a park, in the literal sense; trees, benches, water. People tend to rush by that and become obsessed with the rides. I think of it as my neighborhood park. Just one I have to drive 200 miles to get to.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 >>Compared to what? Compared to other theme parks? It's still the best quality, and yes it's more expensive.<< <That's debatable, but this thread is debating Disney's old and current standards and it isn't measuring up.> I'm one of those who misses a lot of the old standards, and have said so many times. But this debate isn't just about old Disney vs. new Disney; other posters (including you) brought up Disney vs. other vacation choices. >>A week at DLR or WDW compared to a week in London? Apples and oranges.<< <Of course it is so why are you doing it?> Because it was you who said "There are other vacation choices. A theme park isn't the best vacation choice. You can do other things that are more fun and authentic. A theme park only mimics the world in a play environment. It is actually rather kiddie like. Go see the real world." and I was responding to that. And a "real world" location like London is apples and oranges with DLR or WDW. <There are many valid comparisons to vacations in the U.S. or where the dollar is stronger. Your dollar will go farther if you can avoid the typical traps that come with a Disney vacation like the high admission costs, food costs with lack of choice, and other factors like park hours and a limited entertainment schedule.> Everyone has to determine for themselves if Disney is worth the cost or not. For ourselves, we've decided it is, every couple of years. Others will decide differently, and go either more or less frequently. <If you prefer DLR, then the issue of seeing DL is rather a non-issue. There isn't enough to do in Disneyland for a whole week as it is. Southern California has many other things to do. In contrast, Orlando is basically a Disney town.> Or, at least, a theme park-centric town. That's why I find a week in SoCal so much more interesting. There's so much else.
Originally Posted By p-n-p06 I agree with the original post but also with post #46 about looking at the park less for the obvious and more for the subtle elements. I am not a long-timer like most of you; my first visit was at age 27. I've been to DLR six times, WDW once and that is it. Hubby and I have toyed with the idea of making it an annual trip but after our most recent (1/08) I left feeling burnt out on Disneyland. I never felt that with my prior trips. I've started to feel like we should look elsewhere and explore the so many other places in the world there are to find and enjoy. I still love Disneyland but I've had enough for awhile. Just my .02. By the way...we enjoyed our stay at the HOJO and thanks to all who recommended it when we asked about it back in the Fall of 07!
Originally Posted By topdisneymom Dyznydad, The same thing happened to my family. Then the grandchildren came, and now the trill of Disneyland lives on again for my husband and I. My grown children have come back to Disneyland again too.
Originally Posted By woody >>I wasn't "making it personal", I was just asking who you were talking to when you said we should visit the "real" world.<< Okay, perhaps I should clarify. Many of its theme parks are recreations of scenes from other countries. That is especially true of EPCOT and Animal Kingdom. I already stated this. If your visit to WDW is based on wanting to experience other countries, you would miss on the real world. After I visited WDW a few years ago, I realized that it was a mistake to expect WDW to match the real world experience with the rather lame rides in EPCOT and Animal Kingdom. But if I had no such expectation, then the park could be experienced a lot better.
Originally Posted By 8 ilovemickey 8 Sometimes I wonder whether it's the fact that our expectations aren't met or the fact that our expectations are simply too much. I'm only 20 so this Disneyland of today is pretty much all I have known. I feel in love with it when I was toddler and to this day nothing has changed my passion for Disneyland. In retrospect I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that when we go we always go only for 4 days...we enjoy leaving feeling like we wish we could stay longer instead of feeling burnt out. And we usually only go one or two times a year. I think with anything you can choose to find the negatives, everything has negatives. So I am not so sure if it is true that Disneyland has lost it's magic or rather people have lost the ability to see and enjoy the magic.
Originally Posted By Japanland I think Disneyland is changing in a fundamental and negative way due to the pursuit of relatively short-term profits. It seems that in the old days, with the exception of the Fantasyland rides, all the rides were open-ended. Each ride was a journey to an amazing place, whether a world of the future, adventure, pirates, dinosaurs or ghosts, and one was not forced to follow a restrictive story-line. So, while small stories and gags took place in these settings (for example, the dunking of the mayor in POTC and the night watchman and dog being frightened by the ghosts in the graveyard of the HM), you were free to travel through such a world and let your imagination run wild - there was always a sense of surprise and possibility and not knowing what would come next. Rides like the Matterhorn may have been loosely based on a film, but this was non-intrusive and such knowledge was hardly necessary for experiencing the ride. These days (with a few notable exceptions such as Expedition Everest) every ride is tied to a fixed storyline instead of being open-ended. The Disneyland subs are a perfect example - they went from being an open-ended exploration of the unknown deep sea, with each new encounter a surprise, to a repeat telling of the Nemo story. The reason for this change is obvious - nobody sees a Matterhorn movie and then decides to go to Disneyland, or rides the Matterhorn and then decides to buy the Matterhorn movie DVD, or buys Matterhorn toys after riding the Matterhorn, but this sort of behavior and the additional profits it generates is what is expected for Nemo, Winnie the Pooh, Buzz Lightyear and so on. Admittedly, this practice existed in Disneyland from the beginning to a much smaller extent in the form of the Fantasyland rides, and kudos to Disney for recently building Expedition Everest, but I can't help feeling that with each new Pixar-based ride, the open-ended wonder and magic felt in the exploration of past, future, exotic and fantastic worlds is being lost. I wish Disney would look to the long-term sustainability of the park and build more rides in keeping with the "true" spirit of Disneyland - adventures into the fantastic, often by means of a revolutionary transportation system (wink wink), with plenty of goings-on to stimulate and entertain in a world unfettered by an overriding plot. I want to be free to dream! As an example of a ride that would be in keeping with such spirit, Disney could use the latest technology to build an E-ticket time machine attraction - one that moves backwards and forwards in time but stays in place spatially. So much could be done with an open-ended concept like this - for example, a planned trip to go back in time and encounter dinosaurs, and then visit with Walt himself, goes awry on return because of a time machine malfunction, and the machine plunges into the unkown future including human civilization 500 years hence, a harrowing encounter with the last days of the earth and rescue by technologically advanced aliens. Such a ride would provide storylines while also leaving endless possibilities to the imagination. Unfortunately, such a ride would not create the synergy among movies, toys and rides desired by the short-term profiteers at the company, so I guess Disney will no longer build such a ride. I can see the marketers arguing about how much easier it would be to promote a new Ratatouille ride to kiddies in a Disneyland commercial, rather than a Time Machine that nobody know about. For this reason, I feel that the quality and enjoyability of the park is slowly being eroded And, if any of you Disney corporate-types are reading, one might even argue that this will harm the long-term profitability of Disneyland
Originally Posted By iamsally re post 46: Dyznydad, I am happy to say that I loved Disneyland in my teens. Went every year with my marching band and would talk my parents into going again. My kids as teenagers (and a couple of them were terminally cool) always loved a trip to the Magic Kingdom seemingly checking their coolness at the gate. As adults they love the Parks and take their own kids as often as possible. We will see how they feel when they reach their teens. I just feel very lucky that though I feel the Park has lost a lot of its soul my progeny still feel the magic there.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros "...or buys Matterhorn toys after riding the Matterhorn..." If they offered any Matterhorn toys, I would buy them. I think it's just about my favorite attraction Disney has ever done (I know there are many that are far more elaborate and convincing of setting, but the Matterhorn is just plain fun), so I would be more than willing to shell out some money for some decent Matterhorn souvenirs. Of course, since there is only one Matterhorn, they won't be able to sell the same souvenirs in the other parks, so they probably won't ever really make them. I'm sure I'm not the only one who would buy some of it too!
Originally Posted By Mr X Wow, what a great first post. Welcome to LP, Japanland (do you live in Japan?).
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Japanland - right on man! Woody - ironically Epcot and Dak are the only reasons for us to go to WDW, they are the only things that live up to the disney ethos in the swamps of florida
Originally Posted By Mr X I would venture to say that the whole shebang "lives up to the disney ethos" in Florida... But that's just my opinion of course. I love Disneyland, goes without saying, but DCA totally sucks (again, my opinion), and doesn't hold a candle to ANY of the Florida parks (again, my opinion), and the fact that Florida has so much more (water parks, downtown Disney, Fort Wilderness and all that, and the hotels, etc, etc...)... Well, anyway, I just have to wonder if you are just cynical about Florida for whatever reason (maybe late buses or something ).
Originally Posted By Mr X And let's face it...besides "the magic kingdoms" there are only TWO parks on earth that hold a candle to the original. One is in Florida. The other is in Tokyo. NONE are anywhere else.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Actually X, I would say DLP is superior to the MK in virtually every way (except when it comes to fireworks), and when DLP opened, it gace the original a run for it's money. And nope, I do not like Florida - the weather, the critters, some of the people, the spread out property (I like to be able to walk around my disney resorts). To me, WDW shows that bigger does not always equal better. But let me repeat, I think Epcot and DAK are awesome!
Originally Posted By Mr X I agree, I think DLP is awesome and probably the very best magic kingdom (haven't been there, so can't say for sure). Note that I mentioned "BESIDES the magic kingdoms".
