Originally Posted By nbodyhome >> If you fell in love with Epcot prior to 2000, you've got nothing left and keep seeing the remnants hacked away. << I fell in love with Epcot 25 years ago, and I still am. Not everything is as good as it once was, but it's still a solid, lovely park. (my personal favorite of the 4). Denise
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>>However I feel this way about the world in general right now. Virtually ALL experiences seem to be much more so on the cheap these days than they were 10 - 15 years ago. Customer service outside of Disney is down far more than it is inside the gates ( IMHO ) - with very few exceptions.<<<< I think this may be part of my personal problem. Having been beat up by the last 3 years of corporate insanity, outsourcing, budget fights and all the good fun of being a senior manager in a plc, I used to use Disney as an escape. Seeing them use the same cheap tactics has been very jarring. Having watched the new treasures last night (finally arrived after waiting a month), I do still love Disney (duh). I just suppose selfishly, I want to use Disney to show the rest of the world quality wins. But that is becoming a little harder to do. And when other adults talk about Disney being for kids, its all about toons etc. etc., Disney is making that harder to dispute! lol
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>Not everything is as good as it once was, but it's still a solid, lovely park. (my personal favorite of the 4).<<< That's because you have great taste!!! Epcot has been hacked away, but I do still feel the spirit.
Originally Posted By RandySavage The "shifting baselines" concept, used by biologists and other scientists, applies here. To paraphrase Randy Olsen’s LA Times Op-ed piece, a “baseline†is a reference point for measuring the health or quality of something. It's how things used to be, and it provides information against which to evaluate change. Shifting baselines are the chronic, slow, hard-to-notice changes in things, from the disappearance of birds and frogs in the countryside to the increased drive time from L.A. to San Diego. If your ideal weight used to be 150 pounds and now it's 160, your baseline -- as well as your waistline -- has shifted. In applying this to an example from WDW, we could say that the Main Street of 1980 is the baseline: then it enjoyed immaculate upkeep, had a diversity of retail, and the Penny Arcade, Magic Shop and Cinema were all intact with their unique features. Even if you are satisfied with what you find in today's Main Street, it is important, I believe, to remember the baseline and recognize that it has shifted. Things on Main Street were once more diverse, more interesting, and cleaner. It was better in 1980. Some posters here have the mindset of “don’t get worked up about the diminishing quality at WDW. It’s just an amusement park built by a corporation to make a buck.†But to many of us the Disney parks are more than that. The parks are entwined with precious personal experiences and memories and we feel invested in them. Disneyland in particular has become part of the American identity, like the Statue of Liberty or Yellowstone. A better example might be the Empire State Building or “Star Warsâ€, because these are also privately owned and intended mainly for profit. There would be a massive public outcry if the owner of the ESB wanted to reclad it in glass. How many people felt disgusted when Lucas went mucking around with the original Star Wars, adding irritating digital effects and Greedo shooting first. My point is: it is both right and good to remember and discuss the baseline Disney. The key to seeing improvement at WDW is to never let the baseline shift. Remember what was done better in the past and let WDC know, both in person at the parks and on boards like this one.
Originally Posted By nbodyhome >> Having watched the new treasures last night (finally arrived after waiting a month), I do still love Disney (duh) >> The new DL Treasures DVD set is FANTASTIC! >> That's because you have great taste!!! Epcot has been hacked away, but I do still feel the spirit. << It's hacked a bit here and there, but I do have great taste! I don't feel "the spirit" so much at MGM, and I do think that our MK is the least interesting of all I've visited (DL and DLP are the other two). >> My point is: it is both right and good to remember and discuss the baseline Disney. << I really like your post RandySavage. For those who think that we should be comparing DL to other parks...can you imagine Walt alive today, saying "Disneyland, we are better than 6 Flags"! I can't. I like the baseline example, Disney should be compared to itself, because it was the standard bearer.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo RandySavage - Applause, so far yours is the post of the year. Thank you for being so articulate!
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost >>>>applying this to an example from WDW, we could say that the Main Street of 1980 is the baseline: then it enjoyed immaculate upkeep, had a diversity of retail, and the Penny Arcade, Magic Shop and Cinema were all intact with their unique features. Things on Main Street were once more diverse, more interesting, and cleaner. It was better in 1980.<<<<< I don't disagree but I do think that a couple of things need be considered. First, the diversity of Main Street has declined because the people visiting the parks were not interested in what was there. Some of it was because they just didn't like the things offered and others were out of not knowing what was available and what it was all about. I know I wasn't real aware of what Main Street had to offer because for the most part they were places that were trying to sell me something and I wanted to hit the attractions. If I wanted to buy something I would have gone to my local Sears store. Secondly, what they did have to offer, no one was buying. The only thing that sold were mugs and plush characters. The message Disney took from that was fill the area with cheap (relatively) gift items and run it the entire length and you will get everyone. Cleanliness happening on Main Street was accomplished by a system that might surprise you...smokers! In the 80's there was a small army of street sweepers constantly at the ready to pick up cigarette butts the minute they hit the ground (or sooner). With the advent of smoking restricted to smoking areas the "army" was no longer required and one of the first things that suffered was the constant cleanliness of Main Street. Funny how things work out, isn't it. WDW is a magic place but it is also a business. You wouldn't keep a constant cleaning crew out when the need declined drastically. It just isn't good business. Run some cleaners up the street once an hour is probably sufficient. Should the guest see liter on the ground, well, they are the slobs that put it there so why worry about it. If the guests want it clean then stop making it dirty. We are always pointing our finger at the wrong people. Mostly because they are the easiest targets. The truth is that the quality of guests has declined more then the quality of WDW.
Originally Posted By u k fan <<We are always pointing our finger at the wrong people. Mostly because they are the easiest targets. The truth is that the quality of guests has declined more then the quality of WDW.>> I agree with that, in an ideal world the only reason to have street cleaners at all would be to sweep up spilt popcorn. Dave, I saw this post on another board and boy did they miss the point. They were certainly not looking at the bigger picture. I actually think that in some ways things are getting better. Cleanliness at DLP seems much better for example. On the flip side we get MILF in Tomorrowland. I haven't experienced the attraction yet, but I've yet to hear a convincing argument for why Monsters Inc characters belong in Tomorrowland. The very same technology could have been used to great effect in the same location on an attraction based on an original idea that would have worked with the theme so much better. There are times when character attractions are appropriate and times when they aren't. Disney seems to be forgetting this. I am optimistic for the future of Disney parks and animation at the moment, but I really think they should take a good look at the direction they are taking and see if they think they've deviated from their original mission statement. I would currently give Disney a B. Certainly a good grade, but sad when you think they used to get straight A's!!!
