Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<I don't see any problem with Disney pulling the plug, starting over>> I don't have a problem with them pulling the plug and starting over, but IMO they should have a more fleshed out plan before they do it. Not looking for "a master plan that covers all contingencies for the far distant future," just more than "We are committed to offering guests new and exciting experiences they can only have at Walt Disney World Resort."
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I travel, a lot. Hello from Colorado today. That said, does anyone in WDW's executive ranks ever leave central Florida?>> Well, the cost of gas for those Escalades is really going up <<All the things they plan on installing can be found all over the US in various malls, plazas, and promenades. My hotel is directly across from one such district which has about 5-6 themed restaurants with a tiny improv theater, a movie theater, and some water features. People goto Disney because it's unique.>> No. They go to WDW because it's part of a chain: Disney Parks -- Where Dreams Come True And Magic Lives Especially If You're Planning a Magical Celebration During The Year of a Million Dreams. Seriously, Jay Rasulo and army of kiss-up, rubberstamp execs are utterly clueless about what WDW was, is and is supposed to be about. They intend to make it over in their image and knowing or having met many of them, I can only tell you how scary a vision that is.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<While I don't feel strongly about PI getting a much needed rearranging (although I will miss the Adventurers Club!), this thread is fast becoming another one of those threads that Disney must by now come to expect every time change is announced. Woe to all of us, the new plans are awful, I hate what they're doing, they're ruining something we've all loved, how dare they make these kind of changes, ad nauseum. And this is the time when I jump in like always and say, hey, how bout we wait and see what they do with the property?>> You know what Danny? That's very senisble. Sounds restrained. Sounds logical. Sounds like you're a fan with your head screwed on straight. Why complain about things that haven't happened yet? That would like be complaining about having my tofu tacos without trying them (addressed to a woman in New England). Well ... actually no. It's actually a very intelligent, reasoned and, yes, emotional response to what many of us see as yet another example of the WalMarting of WDW. Disney back in the 70s and 80s and early 90s never disappointed me so there was never an expectation they would. Then things changed. The whole rise of marketing and consultants. The era of cutbacks, being force-fed Disney Magic instead of having magical vacations. Why will I tell you that this is bad? Because Disney no longer has earned any benefit of the doubt from this most loyal spirit. Because PI was a wonderfully conceived and executed place for adults to play late into the night at WDW and it was deliberately killed through outright neglect and poor management. I am not angry they're closing the clubs at this point, although I could easily make a good argument for leaving AC open because of its uniqueness or even CW and 8-trax because I know for a fact they are profitable. I am not angry because PI died a long, long time ago. But please don't sit back and say we should wait to judge. Disney lost that right over a decade ago. DCA anyone? ... How about Journey Into WDI's Lack of Imagination versions 2.0 and 3.0 ...The Enchanted Tiki Room Under Tom Fitzgerald's Management ... The Adventureland Traffic Clogging Spinner, a BAH/pin shack ... shutting down an animation studio (after spending $75 million building the facility and watching it produce properties that were creative trimumphs as well financial successes that have put BILLIONS into Disney's coffers) ... how about a $200 million Space ride that has half of it powered off all the time because it's too intense for too many people ... what about letting a lagoon become a haven for bugs before filling it in and putting sod and a McDonald's playground on top where an E-Ticket once sat ... how about making the MK a generic toon park? Would you like me to go on? Disney's track record, especially in Florida has been abysmal over the past decade or so. If you take Joe Rohde and the masterpiece that is DAK out of the equation, they're probably batting about .150. So when I see something that I know is going to be bad. And a mistake ... I'm shouting it from the rooftops. <<Most people agree that PI is a sad shadow of its former self. Where's the enthusiasm that Disney is making some changes? And does it really matter that Restaurants X Y and Z are run by chains as opposed to being run by Disney? >> No. On the restuarant front it probably doesn't. After all, I can get the best cheeseburger on property at Fulton's, a fish joint, for $8.95 before my discount, and unlike Disney they have the decency to not toss filler in the meat. Oops, I digressed ... I guess I'm hungry!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I think this is a smart move that will take care of a few of the problems they have been having for the past couple of years. For the most part PI was a hang out for locals from the soutside of town. With it they were bringing a lot of crime and violence issues.>> You make it sound like PI was a haven for gangbangers, drugpushers and $50 prostitutes. That just wasn't the case. Crime and violence were not major issues. And any increase could be attibuted to the fact Disney took away the entrance gates (because again it's goal was to kill PI) to let anyone wander in for free. <<I think the majo reasonthey are closing the night clubs is to get rid of the non-Disney guests.>> You're off on this one, bud. They want the non-Disney guests. DD has always thrived in good or bad times because of them. They aren't looking in these economic times to tell Orlando residents 'stay away, we want only out of town money.' <<It also sounds like they are trying to kick it up a notch to exclude even more people. Replacig dance clubs with offerings like Smith & Wollensky and Grand Lux Cafe will definitely change the demo.>> First things first. If Disney had agreements with those companies, then it would have been in the press release. That was the absolute weakes release for a MAJOR development I have ever seen in WDW's history. It said nothing at all. Now, we may likely see both of those dining chains open locations at DD, but nothing was announced. They also aren't exactly unique. Grand Luxe is an upscale Cheescake factory. I used to walk from my 90210 apartment to the one in the Beverly Center to dine. They've opened 2-3 in South Florida in the past few years, including one at my local mall. As for Smith & Wollensky, I've never been to one. Once I started waiting in a line in Vegas and then realized I could dine somewhere more unique. I know there's one on Miami Beach, but I prefer Prime 112 because it isn't part of a chain and they always treat their customers like kings. But the fact is it's just a high-end chain steakhouse, much like Shula's, and BTW it is aimed at an expense account crowd moreso than tourists. These places just shut out anywhere USA to me. They certainly don't say WDW. This all kind of reminds of early rumors for HKDL when there was serious talk that Pressler wanted companies like Planet Hollywood and McDonald's running locations inside the park. Jay Rasulo is absolutely hell-bent on making over WDW in his image ... all I can say to that is have you seen the man?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<< “We are committed to offering guests new and exciting experiences they can only have at Walt Disney World Resort,†said Downtown Disney Vice President Kevin Lansberry. >>> <<Really? Removing AC and the rest and replacing it Smith & Wollensky and Grand Luxe Cafe constitutes "new and exciting experiences [guests] can only have at Walt Disney World Resort?" I can only hope that that person knows that's not true, and doesn't actually believe it himself, otherwise we're really in trouble.>> Whomever this latest DD exec is, and they've had a revolving door there, didn't write those words. They came from a WDW publicist. I'm not sure who is in charge of DD for Disney P&P, but it either came from them or Rick Sylvain (the head of print media). It's another statement that means absolutely nothing. Baby chatter is more intelligent. <<As far as lack of dining capacity, I do actually agree with Disney there. That's been one of my complaints. If you arrive at the dinnertime without reservation, there are long waits at every nice restaurant at DtD, with few other options.>> I dunno. I am not often there for dinner, but the only place I ever see ridiculous waits for is RC because it appeals to all the tourists. I still enjoy Capt'n Jack's although who knows how much longer that place has. It's the only food and beverage location they operate anymore (how's that for irony at DD) and some exec is sooner or later going to say why should we even have that location.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox "By September 28, 2008, all of the nightclubs on Pleasure Island will close. It will be last call for the last time at 8 Trax, The Adventurer's Club, Mannequins™ Dance Palace, BET Sound-Stage™ Club, Motion and The Comedy Warehouse. Downtown Disney® will feature an entirely re-imagined Pleasure Island. Based on Guest feedback, the nightclubs will be replaced by an extraordinary mix of dining and shopping - to be announced in the future - that will entertain Guests of all ages." Nothing actually planned to replace the PI clubs but they will be closed before the end of September? The new fiscal year begins October 1. How convenient. Advanced bookings for the fall and holidays are way down for WDW. With rising fuel costs and unemployment up, this is not likely to reverse anytime soon. Do the math. Closing PI is about cost cutting. I guarantee most of the PI cast members will not be transferred elsewhere on property. The PI Pink Slip Party awaits.
Originally Posted By Elderp "Then things changed. The whole rise of marketing and consultants. The era of cutbacks, being force-fed Disney Magic instead of having magical vacations." And yet we still pay for it. I think this is sad, but as long as the hotels are constantly full Disney isn't going to change its tune.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Yep, but this is why I am boycotting WDW in favour of the other resorts. Sad thing is, it probably will not make a difference. That is why I try to encourage others to do likewise.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> That would like be complaining about having my tofu tacos without trying them (addressed to a woman in New England). << With all due respect to you Spirit, but in defense of bobbe , tofu tacos just doesn't sound very manly. I might try one, but I would never admit it publicly. Heck, I will be permanentlt black-balled from the Good Ol' Boy Club.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Disney's track record, especially in Florida has been abysmal over the past decade or so. If you take Joe Rohde and the masterpiece that is DAK out of the equation, they're probably batting about .150. << I wonder how Joe Rohde feels about the AC permanently closing it's doors?
Originally Posted By MPierce I am very surprised there hasn't been more speculation on why this is happening in relationship to the economic downturn. A perfect way of cutting back on offerings by WDW in the hopes that outside vendors will pick up the slack. I really see more of this in the future.
Originally Posted By NikkiLOVESMickey <<But these kind of threads have a way of feeding on themselves and growing in strength and violence.>> VIOLENCE? I've never heard of anyone getting VIOLENT as a result of one of the threads on LaughingPlace.com. I believe you're being more than a little dramatic. As Spirit said, I can't have a wait and see attitude when Disney has botched so many projects in recent memory. I loved PI, and for many years I'd come back from the parks, jump in the shower and jump on the bus to PI and have a fantastic time. I loved the AC and I loved 8Trax, and as of September 27 they're history with seemingly little or no definite plans as to what will take their place except for "new shopping and dining experiences". Like I said, my greatest fear is that this will become another 20,000 Leagues cum Pooh Playground. Now excuse me while I hop on a plane to Florida and kick some Disney exec's butt - this thread has whipped me into a violent frenzy! Get the bail money together, baby!
Originally Posted By dshyates Nikki, i remember not to long ago a wide eyed, little girl who thought Disney could do no wrong. Now look what we have done to you. PS, I got the bail money and I'll even hold your full re-usable resort cup from 2 trips ago while you kick some patootie.
Originally Posted By NikkiLOVESMickey <<Nikki, i remember not to long ago a wide eyed, little girl who thought Disney could do no wrong. Now look what we have done to you.>> I think it's similar to when you really admire someone and put them on a pedestal - they can do no wrong in your eyes, and even if you're confronted with proof that they've made a mistake, you don't want to believe it and will deny it and defend them until you're blue in the face...and then you wake up. I still love the parks and Disney is my most favorite place on the planet, without a doubt. While I probably will never be as harsh a critic as Spirit (and though Spirit is harsh, I know he's harsh because of he loves the parks as well), my believe that Disney can do no wrong is long gone.
Originally Posted By dshyates " my believe that Disney can do no wrong is long gone." As long as you still believe that when the stars align correctly and everything is copacetic Disney can still blow your socks off. Even something as simply as the "ice" lights on the castle can do it for ya.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Nothing actually planned to replace the PI clubs but they will be closed before the end of September? The new fiscal year begins October 1. How convenient. Advanced bookings for the fall and holidays are way down for WDW. With rising fuel costs and unemployment up, this is not likely to reverse anytime soon. Do the math. Closing PI is about cost cutting. I guarantee most of the PI cast members will not be transferred elsewhere on property. The PI Pink Slip Party awaits.>> Yes. And those AC and CW entertainers aren't going to suddenly decide they want to work a register at Pecos Bill's or be a greeter at check-in at Port Orleans. Those are by Disney non-exec standards, high-paying jobs. So you get rid of them. And you add that to things like hours being cut and dining cutbacks (a few Micechatters have reported Disney will no longer serve lunch at The Land Grill and that they are eliminating the characters but not lowering the price or going back to a la carte service at Liberty Tree Tavern), surveys about gas prices and ticket offers and you start getting the feeling a bit of behind the scenes panic is setting in at Team Disney. But I could be wrong ... no really ... I could.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<And yet we still pay for it. I think this is sad, but as long as the hotels are constantly full Disney isn't going to change its tune.>> Well, Disney's hotels aren't constantly full. And they now fill many of them sue to discounting. But I don't believe there is simply one way to run a business, even if that business is WDW. And I do know that every exec has a shelf life and Jay Rasulo is starting to smell like that milk at the back of the fridge. The fact John Lasseter has little or no respect for him also speaks volumes. At some point there will be someone else heading Disney Parks and Resorts and one would hope they have some vision.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<With all due respect to you Spirit, but in defense of bobbe , tofu tacos just doesn't sound very manly. I might try one, but I would never admit it publicly. Heck, I will be permanentlt black-balled from the Good Ol' Boy Club>> In truth, they were the first tofu tacos I had ever eaten. And they were mighty tasty. But I'm not a member of any Ol' Boy Club, so I don't have to worry about having my membership revoked.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I wonder how Joe Rohde feels about the AC permanently closing it's doors?>> I really think we all know how he feels.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I think it's similar to when you really admire someone and put them on a pedestal - they can do no wrong in your eyes, and even if you're confronted with proof that they've made a mistake, you don't want to believe it and will deny it and defend them until you're blue in the face...and then you wake up.>> Yep. I was in denial back in the mid-90s when I first started seeing poorly maintained resort rooms, entertainment getting cut for foamhead shows, dining becoming all character meals, constant price increases, unique shops replaced by character crap, dirtier parks, attractions that not only didn't wow me but left me saying 'what was that?' ... I made all the excuses. I tried to justify Disney's bad choices. I did everything but admit that the keepers of Walt and Roy and the Nine Old Men and hundreds of others legacies had blatantly chosen to let us all down, opting to cut corners and take away things that made Disney, Disney in a futile attempt to make a 20% increase for shareholders every year. And then one day about a decade ago, I woke up. I realized the Disney I grew up with and loved simply didn't exist anymore. I made my peace with that and tried to appreciate it for what it was. I still do ... sometimes more successfully than others. <<I still love the parks and Disney is my most favorite place on the planet, without a doubt. While I probably will never be as harsh a critic as Spirit (and though Spirit is harsh, I know he's harsh because of he loves the parks as well), my believe that Disney can do no wrong is long gone. >> It's sad when that happens. Well into the 1990s I thought that. Now, I just hope the idiots who run the parks don't totally destroy them until we can (hopefully) get a change in direction at the top.
