Originally Posted By ChiMike >>Is it staffing, is it a safety issue, are you just to darn cheap to provide those things for my enjoyment,<< All of the above. The safety issue wouldn't be as much of a concern if they stopped constraining traffic flow with shuttered stores, using Town Square as a giant Meet & Greet, and using the Plaza as a giant ampitheater.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<The excuse I heard for removing the mature trees inside the Magic Kingdom is that they had grown larger than anticipated and they were messing with the scale of some of the buildings inside the park.>> Key word: 'excuse.' The other 'excuse' they were too large to be on top of the tunnels.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I thought they were bringing back the sparkling lights?>> They have in the past year. But imagine putting a strand of WalMart lights on a few of your smaller shrubs and you get the idea. It's nowhere near the magical twinkling lights in mature trees that used to exist.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I don't care how short the ride was or having to get out of their way, it gave Main Street more character. Speaking of character, has anybody else kind of lost that great Disney feel when you walk down Main Street. I know I'm finally at the MK, but it just doesn't quite feel the same to me anymore. That's how I judge any place I go, how it feels to be there.>> Boy, do you sound like I feel ... every time I go to the MK ... then to come to the LP and hear the blathering of fans who never visited before 2000 (just to pick a number) about how great the place is, how clean it is, how wonderful the entertainment is ... it gets the Spirit all choked up. <<I still love the place, but something feels lacking. Maybe I just need a break from WDW for a while.>> I've taken breaks. They don't change anything because fundamentally the problem isn't us ... it's them. It's how WDW management has dumbed down/ homogenizged/WalMarted the MK into a generic Disney/Pixar Character Magic Park. Something else I noted, that I knew I was right about, the old style themed trash cans. Note to Phil Holmes, Erin Wallace and Al 'I lied to the O-Sentinel' Weiss, but painted cans with an emblem on the side aren't the same as painted, unique to their location cans. ... Like the MK used to have.
Originally Posted By kennect Spirit, You make an interesting comment about the tree's on top of the tunnels...That in fact could be very true...Then again maybe not...But my personal experience where I live is the the builder's original landscaping plan was way beyond what in reality this developement could handle...We have had tree's that were breaking up drive ways with their roots, etc....So maybe there is something to the idea that the tree's at WDW could have presented a problem long term...That is something I have never thought of before untill reading this....I live about ten minutes from Stone Mountain here in Atlanta...I firmly believe whatever created Stone Mountain extends all of that distance to my yard...We have huge boulders underground where nothing can be planted since there is only about ten inches of dirt on top of them....It makes perfect sense to me that areas of the MK that are directly on top of the tunnels do have some limitations as to what they can do landscape wise....That is strictly my theory but maybe for once it isn't that WDW is playing cheap....
Originally Posted By kennect But Spirit, I left out another major question....In reality what area do the tunnels cover? We think of the MK park at WDW being very much like DL...You enter Mainstreet and reach the hub where the other areas branch out from...Do the tunnels actually mimmick the same layout or are they something very different???
Originally Posted By ChiMike No. It's hard to explain, but for the most part there is a large central corridor coming from the back and leading down towards the train station. Main Street is boxed with a square pattern. A diamond shape-like pattern radiating out to the other lands of the original park. Most of the boundry areas of the park do not have the utilidors because of their addition after 1971 and the fact that the park slopes downward as it gets to the boundries. So while the castle, centrally, is tied to the tunnel system, Toontown is not. Does that help?
Originally Posted By ChiMike Not the best map I have seen on the first floor, but worthwhile: <a href="http://www.talkdisney.com/maps/utilidor.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.talkdisney.com/maps /utilidor.jpg</a>
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 The tunnels are under a majority of the MK. I have a map here somewhere that I'm too lazy to dig out. There are some areas with no tunnels under them, large swaths of Frontierland ... all of Toontown Faire (which was added as a temp land anyway). But you can walk directly down Main Street, under it right under the Castle and circle around to the other lands. The main tunnel entrance/exit is actually behind where the sub lagoon used to be, kind of under Pinnochio's fast food joint. As to the trees becoming too large and producing stress below, I don't buy it. Many of the trees were at their mature size ... they wouldn't have gotten any larger. The Utilidors weren't caving in. That's kind of like the Internet/CM/Urban myth that the 20,000 Leagues attraction had to go because it was flooding the tunnels. And, even if you gave Disney all the benefit of the doubt, it doesn't excuse taking out full size trees and replacing them with smaller trees than I have in my vast SoFla estate. You have a huge tree farm on property and you can't put in more than stip center seedlings? Nope. Not buying it for a second.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 The tunnels are considered the first level of the MK since the park was built UP due to Fla's watertable ... the MK is in essence on the second floor.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>The Utilidors weren't caving in. That's kind of like the Internet/CM/Urban myth that the 20,000 Leagues attraction had to go because it was flooding the tunnels.<< No doubt. These things are military grade. Now there was a water issue with the lagoon but nothing like it was made out to be and certainly not beyond a fix. >>You have a huge tree farm on property and you can't put in more than stip center seedlings? Nope. Not buying it for a second.<< Can't agree more. What they used as replacement only validates my opinion. It was done as to not interfere with their precious stage show that was being marketed like the next Fantasmic.
Originally Posted By kennect Spirit, I think my simple brain understands what you are referring to in relation to FL.'s watertable...Science related stuff was never my big thing in school...I would love to see a bluprint elevation of how the tunnels and the park itself relate to each other...Not sure that made sense but maybe you get what I mean... The landscaping is another issue...I firmly believe there possibly could be issues with such but then I think of other things that are going on in the MK....So it isn't really worth going into...My only question, out of curiousity is this, how much dirt is there between the ground level and the tunnels at the central hub??? That area not only has dirt on it but also has the water areas in front of the castle...These are things I have never really thought about before yet knowing the whole time there are those tunnels below....The engineering that went into all of this must have been rather brilliant for its time...Everytime I am in the park, as an average vistior, I never think about those tunnels below....
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 ^^It was an amazing feat for its time. Sadly, we (Disney) don't do things like that anymore. If something intrudes on the magic, so what? Disney did use tunnels (limited) in FW at Epcot. But that's it. Kind of amazing really when you think about it ... like going to the moon in the 1960s and barely getting above the atmosphere with the Spruce Goose like space shuttle program. Hey, at least we'll be back on the moon in 2014 ... provided we get the space station finished and don't kill anymore astronauts and no evildoers attact us ... and ...sorry, the space geek in the Spirit is showing. Back to Disney ... isn't it amazing that WED/WDI could create attractions like HM and PoC in the 1960s, but we get crap like 3D movies and Stitch's Great BelchOff in the 21st century? Puts things in perspective, huh?
Originally Posted By ChiMike Ken as I said, the utilidors are serious, heavy duty military grade. It's not a typical basement. Think Bunker.
Originally Posted By kennect Spirit, Don't even try to remind me of how great things could be based on past efforts that are now considered classics....Even in this day an age I want to think of Dinosaur at AK as somewhat of a current classic since it seems to be as close as they are willing to go for these days....Everybody raves about the "Soarin" attractions...To me they mean nothing...But you know what I truly love and I think you do also...The idea that the original dark rides at DL seem to keep the crowds happy...Consider the ancient concept of them and think that Disney had the characters and the ability to do them in a way that they are still very popular in the parks today....Actually I don't even know why I post about any of these things...I am dedicated to the Mouse but it can be very frustrating at times....Just please don't ever tell me that there is another 3d film attraction in the works....
Originally Posted By kennect Chi, I don't doubt anything said by you...The reality is we all know about them but then yet we know nothing....We fans know they exist but I doubt the average person visiting the park is even aware of such....
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Spirit, I think my simple brain understands what you are referring to in relation to FL.'s watertable...Science related stuff was never my big thing in school...I would love to see a bluprint elevation of how the tunnels and the park itself relate to each other...Not sure that made sense but maybe you get what I mean... < the History channel show on WDW shows how the MK was constructed -- in pictures it is easier to grasp..it's pretty amazing
Originally Posted By twirlnhurl "Disney did use tunnels (limited) in FW at Epcot. But that's it." Due to the design of Epcot, any extra tunnels would have been superfluous. Every attraction there is on the outside of the park, except for the communicore (the attraction connected to tunnels). The real step backwards was the Disney MGM Studios, with no tunnels that I am aware of, but a layout with many buildings in central areas.
