Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <Why, oh why do Liberals always want to create a law to legalize every possible human behavior and then when someone actually enforces those laws, the Liberal mind questions how rational those laws are. > Liberals enact laws which are sometimes poorly thought out and then are upset when the laws are enforced in an instance to which they disagree. In this instance, the poster is trying to villafy the officer for enforcing the law. I'm pointing out that sometimes you have to be careful what you wish for. Its too late to question the rationale of the law after it is enacted. Liberals believe that what makes this country great is it government not its people. They are not content until every possible human behavior is legislated or criminalized. I on the other hand believe in Freedom. I believe that people have the right and freedom to curse at their toilet if they so desire. I believe people have the right to be left alone. But some Liberals would like to see our Government with a level of control in our daily lives equal to the world depicted in Orwell's 1984. Big Brother is watching!
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Liberals believe that what makes this country great is it government not its people. They are not content until every possible human behavior is legislated or criminalized. I on the other hand believe in Freedom." Your first two sentences over-generalize so much as to make them dishonest. Your third sentence implies liberals don't believe in freedom, either, which is also a fallacy. And yet, you constantly defend conservatives, a group that goes out of its way to legislate against your own personal life.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Not only that, but a). There's no evidence that it was (long, long-ago) liberals who introduced the laws on disorderly conduct; and b). It was KT's original contention that "Liberals always want to create a law to legalize every possible human behavior and then when someone actually enforces those laws, the Liberal mind questions how rational those laws are." - which makes no sense in this context, since this is a law that OUTLAWS, not legalizes a certain human behavior (disorderly conduct). The logic is all bass ackwards.
Originally Posted By ecdc I'm still waiting for KT to blame the Katrina victims for this somehow. Seriously, I guess it's too much to ask for even one single scrap of evidence to back up such a bizarre diatribe.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "It was KT's original contention that "Liberals always want to create a law to legalize every possible human behavior." You'd think he'd be in favor of that, givne his orientation. Which is not to say there aren't gay who are conservatives on many other issues. There certainly are, and that's fine. But what really puzzles me is he's so gung ho about a group whose majority considers the core of his being a moral outrage and want to make most everything about him illegal, right down to who he can love.
Originally Posted By jdub What nobody has mentioned yet is the woman's quote defending her loud continuting string of profanties: "...I was yelling (for my daughter) to get the mop." Beautiful! Something about the whole thing just kinda makes me wanna, I don't know-- --count her teeth or something!
Originally Posted By jonvn Really, this story isn't about liberals. It's about out of control cops, yet again. Someone gets upset in their own home about something, and a cop decides to call her buddies down and arrest the person. That's what people should focus on in this story, and how we are turning into a police state.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "It's about out of control cops, yet again." This kind of rant really gets tiring.
Originally Posted By jdub I see the story as being about how neighbors have no consideration for one another. There are certain considerations that need to be taken when people live in proximity of one another--and I am talking both about the neighbor and the daughter. The neighbor DID ask her first, at least according to the article. I don't think most would be so considerate. Her alarm at a spewing toilet doesn't excuse her lack of consideration for the two other people in earshot. I'm not advocating arrest, but I am advocating self control and consideration of others.
Originally Posted By jonvn It's precisely what happened here. Off duty cop doesn't like what neighbor is doing, calls buddies, they arrest her for yelling in her apartment. That is what happened.
Originally Posted By jonvn What is happening in this country is we are turning into a police state. There are so many laws that you can break just by breathing, practically. SO, if you are ever near a cop, you have to be awfully nice, or off to jail you go and paying thousands in the process. Eventually, the police will be a very feared set of people, who don't "protect and serve," but instead act as little more than a force for putting down the average citizenry. It's what is happening in general in this country, little by little. When the police finally become completely militarized, what little freedom we have right now will be totally gone.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "It's precisely what happened here. Off duty cop doesn't like what neighbor is doing, calls buddies, they arrest her for yelling in her apartment. That is what happened." You, of course, will see what you want to see. No one is denying there are bad cops. There's bad people in every walk of life. The vast, vast majority of police officers are great people who would risk their lives for you. But to color them all as power hungry borders on a fringe mentality, no pun intended.
Originally Posted By jonvn I'm saying we're seeing this sort of thing popping up more and more. Cops are going power crazy. I think it is the byproduct on the war on drugs. And now the war on terror.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom The police officer was enforing the law. If you don't want someone cited for swearing at their toilet then don't pass laws criminalizing the behavior. So instead of villifying the individuals enforing the laws of the land, maybe you should be focusing on the politicians who are passing these laws. I'm a Libertarian. I believe in personal responsibility, freedom and the right to be left alone. Liberials on the other hand say they believe in Freedom as long as it falls within the framework of the massive Government they have built to control your every action and thought. The Liberals unltimate goal is to have everyone dependent upon the Government so the citizens do not have to think, act, react or imagine anything for themselves. So don't be upset when the Thought Police come knocking on your door. Too many Liberals think that Big Government is fine as long as it does not interfere with what they want to do. Don't blame the Thought Police as they are only enforcing the will of Big Government.
Originally Posted By jonvn "The police officer was enforing the law." I can not tell you how weak and invalid I find this. WHen the germans tried invoking this nonsense after WWII, the world decried it. Enforcing the law blindly is a disgusting thing to do, particularly when you enforce the law for your own personal benefit. It is what disgusts me about cops arresting people for minor drug offenses (and I don't do drugs). Sure it's the law, but it's a stupid law, and they should not be doing that, if they had a shred of morality. What if the law was "round up all black people, and put them in camps to kill them?" Oh, sure, just enforce the law? This has nothing to do with liberals. It has to do with a government run amok against its citizenry, and it's happening more and more every day here.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Also, there's no evidence whatsoever that it was the liberals of the day who insisted on laws regarding disorderly conduct. In fact, viewed objectively without the obvious bias we see here, if anything it seems like something more up conservatives' alley. If one insists on splitting the world into two groups, conservatives tend to be bigger on "order," where liberals tend more towards "do your own thing." But of course it's nuts to try to split the world into two neat little groups to begin with, not to mention having a view of "liberals" that bears scant resemblance to reality.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Joe I do not usually post but I've sat on my hands watching this thread long enough. I was a cop for 16 years and in my opinion poeple just don't have a clue sometimes. Police have a lot of personal discretion within the law and have some lattitude in whether or not to enforce some laws. I must point out that if there is not a law which governs the action in question, the officer has no power or authority to use regarding the issue. I think the issue here is that there was a sleaze-bag neighbor cursing loudly. Now if I were hear that, I'd ask the person to quiet down. If they continued cursing loudly, I'd have a variety of remedies such as disorderly conduct charges. Now if any of the posters on this board had a neighbor cursing loudly, they might or might not be offended. Most would not have the balls to say anything to the neighbor and would instead call the police to come handle the issue. The person who was cursing would be saying the cop is an SOB. The person hiding behind the cop would be happy that the cop came and arrested the person. Apparently, the rest of you around here would call the cop a Nazi for doing what he did. The off-duty officer who called in the on-duty police did exactly what was correct. The on-duty police had the option themselves as to whether charges should be made. Laws are both a convenience and a curse. The more laws that exist, the more ways we empower a police state. Cops want to keep the piece. Some cops are good, some are bad. Increasingly cops are required to enforce stupid, biased and frivolous laws. Laws which are great in someone's mind who envisions a perfect world until that law is used against them. You speed, you get pulled over yet the cop is bad for stopping you. You want a law preventing people talking on the cell phone because a kid drives over a mother and child while talking on the phone but if you get a ticket for talking on the cell phone, the cop is a jerk. People, get a clue! A law is always a law. If you don't want something enforced, don't pass a law governing that activity. If the law is outdated or inapropriate, legislate its removal. The general mentality is that laws are great so long as they don't get used against you. Laws are for everyone, not just a small minority. Laws are to be enforced equally. Most cops do that. Get off the cop's back and give some thought to the society we are creating. I agree with KT that we're more and more Orwell like every day. This is because most individuals in this country do not want to take responsibility for anything. They want laws covering stuff that is common sense because no one wants to say the obvious thing that people are becoming "sheeple" who want little more than to have the government provide for their every need. This country was founded on the principle of individuality and hard work. We're a far cry from that now. I see good people of every race and sex in this country and then I see people who should not be afforded the right to be in this country. I see parents who are too dense to be allowed to have children yet these are the people from whom the politicians seek a vote. America is a great country but soon, we'll be little more than bands of special interests groups all held together by a socialist government. So get a clue. If you curse at your toilet and then curse at the cop who tells you to pipe down, be prepared to go to jail. Remember, the law is on your side. Have a nice day.
Originally Posted By ecdc I'm glad KT can tell liberals what their beliefs and ultimate goals are. Like I said before, if liberals were the way people like KT viewed them, I'd have that kind of contempt for them too. Fortunately, this is all a fantasy cooked up in his head that, as Dabob astutely pointed out, is no where near reality.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder Kennesaw Joe makes some very good points about police and the law but he loses me with the liberal rant.
