Originally Posted By twirlnhurl I think the pirates theme has too much potential to waste on retheming the existing land. Why not break through the berm between Pirates and Splash (moving the parade stuff) and add an extension to the Carribean Plaza? The argument about the Indiana Jones retheme is invalid because "If adventure has a name, it must be Indiana Jones."
Originally Posted By Elderp Pirates are ok, but a whole land is just to much. I don't know if that is what the people want, but if that is what the Marketing people think the people wants I guess that is going to be the way it goes.
Originally Posted By Dznygrl <<It could be argued that Walt took advantage of the popularity of Davy Crocket and the western genre in general. Have people gotten tired of Frontierland after 50+ years?>> Yeah, but Walt had such a passion for America's past I'm sure it would have been added even without the popularity of the wild west. Plus like all the other lands, it has a more generalized theme that allows for more freedom and possibilities. I think an entire land based completely on pirates would wind up being too specific and limiting.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 I'm still not sure by reading the responses that many folks get it. Adventureland, like every other land, is supposed to carry a broad theme and have varied attractions, shops and dining based on that. Pirates are already represented. How exactly do you make a land based on simply marketing a (now) popular franchise to death? Pretty soon, the MK will be all about princesses, pirates and (although I mean all cartoon characters to stay with the alliteration) Pixar. I kinda think that sucks, myself.
Originally Posted By tonyanton I find it funny that they would want to turn the entire land into a "Pirates" theme, when back in the day "Caribbean Plaza" had more of a Pirates theme than the area does now. The restaurant is only open seasonally and they've whittled what was once a nice selection of shops down to one pirates outlet and a crystal cart...even the steel drum band is long gone. The only plus I can see of this stupid idea would be if it meant the end of the magic carpets (move them to the studios animation area if they must).
Originally Posted By gurgitoy2 Yeah, I think marketing has WAY too much influence at the parks. They are the reason the Disney Gallery closed at Disneyland. If they are behind the pirateland idea, I'm afraid. Honestly, I don't have a problem with retheming Adventureland, but to have everything pirate themed is going too far. How would they retheme the Jungle Cruise to be different from POTC? They would both be boat rides with pirates... The Tiki Room could work, since parrots are heavily associated with pirates, but the show would have to be good. The Magic Carpets would need to go away or be rethemed. I don't see why Swiss Family Tree House couldn't stay, but if they built an interactive pirate ship that would be cool too. My worry is that making every attraction pirate themed, they would have a level of sameness, and make the land a little bit more boring. At least the Indy "makeover" at Disneyland's Adventureland didn't really toy with other attractions too much. I mean the only one that tied in a lot was the Jungle Cruise, and it was already close to that direction anyway, they just gave it a more specific time and location. They didn't add Indy to the attraction (only passing by the temple and making mention of it). Although, there were early plans to include the Jungle Cruise, Disneyland Railroad and, Indy in one climactic show scene...and THAT would have made all the attractions kind of blend together. I'm kind of glad they didn't do that.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<I'm still not sure by reading the responses that many folks get it.>> I get it, and like you think it's a bad idea. I was just thinking out loud how a Pirate land *could* be done well. If so many people can be excited about a Star Wars themed land, they could be too for a Pirate one as well... if Imagineering was allowed to do it "blue sky."
Originally Posted By Britain " wouldn't call changing an entire Land into a themed area based on one movie a slight detour." No no, I meant that sometimes people complain when there is a slight detour (like 1930's jungle cruising in the middle of a potential Pirate-land) and other times people complain if there are strict theming rules that must be enforced (changing the Jungle Cruise into a pirate-ish jungle cruise -which won't happen, by the way). As far as cohesiveness goes, right now, what is the main theme of Adventureland? (And don't say "Adventure" because there are plenty of other adventures in the other lands too.) I'd say the current them is: Jungle. Yep, Asian jungle, Polynesian jungle, African jungle. All represented. Carribean Plaza isn't jungle, but it's tropical at least. So here's a chance to add a little more cohesion: Other than jungle, what really do all these places have in common? They ain't American or European or futuristic, that's true. What else? Oh, they're all places pirates would travel to in the 1700's! So now it's the Asian jungle with remnants of pirates from long ago. Now it's the African jungle with remnants of pirates from long ago. And now it's the Polynesian jungle with remnants of pirates from long ago. I think the analogy to Indiana Jones effect on DL's Adventureland is a good one. Now instead of adding a Jeep here, and artifact crates there, WDW's Adventureland can have anchors and masts and barrels of rum sprinkled about. Jungle Cruise will stay in a nice British colony/1930's theme, I'm sure. (It would cost too much to change and it ain't broke. Penny-pinching WDW won't bother touching it.) It won't match the Pirate theme as well as it matched Indy, but don't mind the slight detour. Besides, the real problem will still be the Aladdin carpets.
Originally Posted By MinnieSummer Pirates will always be popular with the kids -- maybe not the movie but the whole idea of pirates. But the theme of AL is all about having an adventure, whether it be with a Pirate, a Flying Carpet, or an angry Island Princess and a bunch of birds. To try and ignore the attractions that already exist and are embraced by the theme, or force a different theme on them, all in an effort to squeeze every possible marketing dollar out of a MOVIE based on an attraction is an insult to those of us who visit WDW and to Walt himself.
Originally Posted By Britain Sorry, but the only reason the Birds are there is because they fit in the aforementioned jungle, not because they are adventurous. Seriously, this transition is a whole lot less of an insult to Walt than Pirate's Lair on Tom Sawyer Island (Pirates? In FRONTIERLAND!?) And yet just about every nay-sayer who has seen it admits that it's a change for the better.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Seriously, this transition is a whole lot less of an insult to Walt than Pirate's Lair on Tom Sawyer Island (Pirates? In FRONTIERLAND!?)>> I never said it was an insult to Walt and I don't recall anyone saying that. An insult to the original concept/design of the MK, perhaps. And, as many have pointed out, there were many river pirates back in Tom Sawyer's day ... and the island is directly across from NOS ... I'm not saying it's not overkill, but it certainly not on the level of what the marketing geniuses (SARCASM ALERT) are proposing for WDW. I'm sure the fact Piartes have visited every exotic locale is more than enough for WDI 'expert' storytellers to come up with a backstory that fits the marketing scheme. ...Even one that justifies an Aladdin carnival spinner in the center of a land themed to pirates ... wait, there were pirates in Agrabah, I'm sure! Just like I'm sure a 'story' exists for why Main Street is just a giant World of Disney outlet with unique and meaningless facades. Or why Monsters have landed and opened a comedy club in Tomorrowland. I just don't have to buy it as anything substantial. <<And yet just about every nay-sayer who has seen it admits that it's a change for the better.>> I haven't seen it. Have you? I just know what I've heard ... and it isn't good. Why does everything Disney do now have to be tied to a cartoon character or franchise? Oh yeah, because the marketing folks like Michael Mendenhall have taken over the kingdom. Dreams for everyone!
Originally Posted By Britain I was responding to MinnieSummer's quote:"an insult to those of us who visit WDW and to Walt himself." Look Spirit, I'm with you. I agreed with practically every single issue you brought up in your "Where has the Magic gone?" post. I'm just saying you may be imagining something a whole lot worse than what is being proposed. I'm all for more barrels, stacks of cannon balls, and an interactive playground aboard the Black Pearl. (In fact, since WDW doesn't have the sailing ship Columbia like at DL or a Skull Rock+Hook's Ship like at Paris, this will finally give guests an opportunity to play pirate on a ship in Florida.) Actually now that I think about it, this could make WDW's Adventureland more like Paris' and that's one cool Adventureland. I'm just saying it could be good.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 ^^What you're talking about is more about 'plussing' Adventureland and adding detail/color to what exists. That's a good thing. That's something I'm all in favor of, especially since they've taken (literally) and closed over half the space in the land over the last 13 years. Making the land one giant Jack Sparrow-themed marketing excuse is something else entirely.
Originally Posted By a1stav "they've taken (literally) and closed over half the space in the land over the last 13 years." Over half of Adventureland closed? I know about the exit shop at Pirates. What else?
Originally Posted By MPierce >> If they were going to do this, shouldn't they have done this in the middle of the movie franchise? Now that the third movie is entering the dollar theaters, I think that this ship has sailed. << Get ready for Pirates 4. If the franchise continues to do well it could have more movies than the Rocky Movies. >> It could be argued that Walt took advantage of the popularity of Davy Crocket and the western genre in general. Have people gotten tired of Frontierland after 50+ years? << That's true, but Frontierland isn't entirely based on just Davey Crocket. I think as long as it's Adventureland it should offer things other than pirates. >> As far as cohesiveness goes, right now, what is the main theme of Adventureland? (And don't say "Adventure" because there are plenty of other adventures in the other lands too.) << Sorry, but I do have to say Adventure is the theme. As much as I feel that Magic Carpet ride looks, and feels out of place it does fit in with the adventure theme. Thus the name Adventureland. I do understand your points though. >> Sorry, but the only reason the Birds are there is because they fit in the aforementioned jungle, not because they are adventurous. << Well you have to be adventurous to sit through the present show. Sorry all of you Tiki Bird fans. >> Why does everything Disney do now have to be tied to a cartoon character or franchise? << You would think they could have learned something from EE. You take a creative imagineer, and a creative team. Invest the time, and money into the attraction. Then execute the whole project as best you can. Guess what you've got a very popular attraction not based on anthing to do with Disney, but based on the theme of the land.
Originally Posted By MPierce I also find it ironic that Jack Sparrow is to my left staring at me right now!
Originally Posted By Skellington88 Disney can do all the lame tie-ins they want its going to be no match for Harry Potter. Now if they totally retool the studios park and make into a Lucas land packed to the hilt with Star Wars and Indiana Jones...now your talking. A Pixar ride here a Pirate overlay there isn't going to cut it.
Originally Posted By Skellington88 >I'm still not sure by reading the responses that many folks get it. Adventureland, like every other land, is supposed to carry a broad theme and have varied attractions, shops and dining based on that. Pirates are already represented. How exactly do you make a land based on simply marketing a (now) popular franchise to death? Pretty soon, the MK will be all about princesses, pirates and (although I mean all cartoon characters to stay with the alliteration) Pixar. I kinda think that sucks, myself.< You are 100% correct although I am mildly curious how they would recycle the area.... Would they remove the tacky aladin spinner thing? Would they remove Tiki room under new management? Those would be improvements in most peoples opinions What about the dole whip stand would that get affect? How about Jungle Cruise? Jungle Cruise has a movie coming out so surely they wouldn't touch that. Would there be new attractions added? Im just very curious in my mind how they would do it.
Originally Posted By Skellington88 >But remember many people rang the alarm when they decided to change the PotC attraction to include references to the movies, and it turned out fine.< eh..while the changes to the ride are generally positive it has created a few problems...for example why is the town protecting a sleezy criminal like jack sparrow? why is every pirate..from his enemies to the fat drunk calling him Captain Jack Sparrow? i thought the whole joke was that nobody recognized his rank and didnt really give him respect! Also..why does jack sparrow appear 3 times in the ride yet all the other charecters show up once? Where is will & elizebeth? When does the ride fit in with the storyline? etc. It opened up a big can of worms.
Originally Posted By schoolsinger I think it might be a good idea to retool the Jungle Cruise. The reason is because we now have DAK nearby with real animals. Something like the Pirate overlay can give it its own personality without it looking like a wannabe DAK attraction.
