Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< A group of us entered a train station but then realized that we were in the right location after all (after having bought tickets and entered, duh). When we brought the tickets back to the train guy, we were given refunds with a smile. I can't imagine such a thing happening in Tokyo. Quite the opposite, in fact. The train folks seem quite stubborn and adamant, and even if you lose your ticket they'll make you pay all over again. >>> This happened to me once at JR Shinjuku Station. Actually, we had purposefully entered the station at morning rush hour just to photograph the beehive of activity. This was before the introduction of Suica cards. We had the older "IO" cards, which were multi-journey magstripe stored value cards like the PassNet cards that the Metro/ResortLine used until recently. And, I knew that JR specifically has a "platform visit" ticket that lets you into the control area of a particular JR station and leave at the same station within a set amount of time (the purpose being to allow you to accompany someone and see them off as they get on the train even though you're not traveling yourself). I assumed that the turnstiles would be programmed to allow for this situation using an IO card, but apparently they were not. So, I had to go to the window, and the JR guy gave me a bunch of grief, in Japanese of course. I didn't understand what he was saying, so I guess we did the "gaijin smash" thing and just stood our ground and he eventually relented and let us pass his checkpoint. Thinking back on it, he must have done something to our tickets, because they worked the next time we tried to use them. I guess I don't know whether he charged us the "platform visit" fare or just reset the cards as if we had never entered. What does this have to do with the "Tokyo vs Osaka" conversation? Well, nothing. But there's always an interesting conversation to be had afterward anytime you have to deal with the "train guys" in an unusual situation.
Originally Posted By Anatole69 $160 US dollars for a night in a good hotel, dinner and Geisha entertainment is actually lower than I was expecting and is something I would invest in once, were I to have to money. - Anatole
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< I found the people of Tokyo to be quite nice and pleasant and was very shocked by how approachable I found them. By contrast, the people of Hong Kong were difficult to stop and talk to and much colder. >>> On my most recent visit to the area in April, I went from spending several nights in Tokyo to several nights in Hong Kong, and the difference was especially obvious when I experienced the two back-to-back. My observation was not so much about the people on the street, but with the service personnel you interact with. Specifically, I had an issue at the hotel. I was traveling with someone else and we each had our own rooms, booked separately. When making the reservations, we made it a point to put in the notes that we were traveling with the other party by name, and in the second reservation referred to the first one not only by name but also confirmation number, and requested connecting or at least adjacent rooms. In Tokyo, no problem. In Hong Kong, our rooms were nowhere near each other, and in fact were on different floors. And, instead of an apology, the front desk people gave attitude and nonsensical excuses when the real problem was they hadn't paid attention to what they were doing. It was pretty much what I would expect in all regards to what would happen had we been in New York City. And, this difference between service personnel repeat itself several times. Of course, the differences between the people in various places is one of the most rewarding things you experience when you travel, so I just take it in stride and actually enjoy the differences as much as I can.
Originally Posted By Malin *** Wow - that is a lot of time in Kyoto. I'm not sure I'd spend that amount of time there - it is a day or so at best. Nara and Hiroshima are about right though. Agreed. Unless you really really really like temples and all their intricacies, 3-4 days in Kyoto is way too long. One, maybe two days are enough. *** Thanks for mentioning this as I used the 3-4 day as a guide line and even I'm doubting I would find enough to keep me entertained. I am sure Kyoto is full of very beautiful temples, but it would probarely drive me insane visiting temple after temple over a 3-4 day period. I have purchased a very basic City Guide of Kyoto, so I'm going to read though it and pick out possible places I would like to see. I'm considering a full day's tour now to get an over view of Kyoto with maybe a Sunrise Tour. Followed by another day trip solo to check out sights the tour has either missed or not dedicated enough time too. *** I'd also do a one-day for the Hiroshima trip. Actually, I'm going there next month. *** Out of interest, how are you taking the trip, as I see day tours are priced at a very high 46,500 Yen.
Originally Posted By Malin *** I can't recommend Himeji castle strongly enough. I did Kobe and Himeji in one day and it was as much a highlight of my trip as my 2 week stay in Tokyo. *** Himeji Castle is a must on my list, but whats the highlight for a visit to Kobe. I gather is got interesting European/American architecture thanks to its history involving trading, and a China Town. *** I think the problem can be "temple fatigue" - I can happily spend a few days wandering around temples and other historical sites but spending a week or more doing that at multiple sites can be exhausting and mentally tedious. *** I can see the point Lee is making here. And I certainly don't want to waste a massive amount of time on visitng temples, and other historical sites. I very much enjoy modern Japan, and its stunning natural beauty, like with the national parks. So for me I'm looking for a combination of the three. *** Malin, you mentioned the cities that you want to visit: Osaka, Kyoto, Nara, and Hiroshima, but interestingly the only specific thing you mention about the whole trip is wanting to visit USJ. We're left to guess about the rest. I'll make an educated guess that Kyoto and Nara are for the temples and shrines, and Hiroshima is for the atomic museum and grounds. But I have no idea what you want to do in Osaka other than USJ *** Well I want to spend a couple of days at Universal checking out some of its unique attractions like Starlight Dreams and Wicked the Musical. The Osaka Aquarium is also a must mainly because it has Whale Sharks, and also I wouldn't say no to visiting the Umeda Sky Building and Osaka Castle. Possible other trips to the main Shopping districts, Osaka Bay cruise, Tempozan Market Place and I-Max theater. In regards to the Umeda Sky Building I would probarely want to visit it twice to view both day and night views.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Out of interest, how are you taking the trip, as I see day tours are priced at a very high 46,500 Yen. >>> Maybe from Tokyo. From Kyoto, the Shinkansen fare is 11,090 yen each way on the fastest Shinkansen, and it takes 104 minutes. Once you're in Hiroshima, you transfer to a streetcar and take it to the atomic museum area. Once there, everything is easily accessible on foot. I don't think there's any need for a guided tour - there's the main museum, a nearby underground memorial museum of some sort, and walking the grounds. If you have a tourist map and a set of eyes, it's all pretty obvious. It's different than Kyoto: there, everything is spread out around the city and you are better served getting at least a multi-stop tourist bus if not a guided tour. Also, in Kyoto, I would say a "must see" is the Fushimi Inari shrine, and not just the base. There are so many torii gates that they create tunnels through the hillside forest that are literally miles long. I recommend you get there in late afternoon, spend time looking at the shrine areas at the base and after the first climb. Most people don't go beyond there, but I recommend that you go all the way to the top. If you ascend during twilight, you'll get to the top just as it gets completely dark. All of the paths on the mountain are well lit and open 24 hours a day. When you get to the very top of the mountain, you'll overlook Kyoto. Being up there among the trees, torii gates, and occasional stations with shrines and the like is a surreal experience. And the whole thing is free! It's just a couple of stops on a local train from Kyoto Station.
Originally Posted By SuperDry Another suggestion for Kyoto is to do the river rafting trip from nearby Kameoka into Kyoto. It goes through a twisting mountain route with great views. And, it's braindead simple: no special clothing and no safety equipment. You just get on the boat and sit in it as if it was It's A Small World and the guides do all the rest, even though you go through mild rapids. When I did it, I was surprised to see as a fellow passenger an elderly man in a business suit! I have no idea what happens if the boat flips over to those who can't swim. I suppose it would be bad news, and that the answer is the boat never flips over.
Originally Posted By Malin Cool thanks for the recomendations I'm serching for both places now on Google. Any more keep them coming? By the way I'm considering March 2010 to make this trip with a possible 2 week stay, do you all recomend the above.
Originally Posted By Anatole69 Yes the reason to visit Kobe is for the vibe of the port city, a few of the museums, and the Chinatown. The Chinatown is quite pretty at nighttime and the whole city has a different feeling to it because of it's history. I wouldn't spend more than part of the day here, though. - Anatole
Originally Posted By Malin Just to offer up a quick update. I have actually gone ahead and booked flights from London to Osaka via Dubai with Emirates. I will be spending 10 nights in Japan during March, so I have plenty of time to check out the Kansai region. Its possible I will end up being based in Osaka, but that could change, I'll decide on Accomendation later in the year.
Originally Posted By Mr X Wow...that's an early booking! Let us know how Emirates is will you? I've heard good things about that airline!
Originally Posted By Mr X ***I didn't understand what he was saying, so I guess we did the "gaijin smash" thing and just stood our ground and he eventually relented and let us pass his checkpoint.*** RTFL. I guess I missed this the first time. Hilarious. "Gaijin Smash"...that's awesome. You know, come to think of it I've had plenty of language barrier issues (I've been here forever, after all) but in most cases workers will try and help in English or you do some sort of mix...but not the train guys. IIRC in all my interactions with them, not one word of English was ever spoken. Just seems a tad funny that NONE of them would even try English in all that time, since they of all people must have to interact with English speakers from time to time (everyone uses the subways, after all). Perhaps it's an honor thing.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< in most cases workers will try and help in English or you do some sort of mix...but not the train guys. IIRC in all my interactions with them, not one word of English was ever spoken. ... Perhaps it's an honor thing. >>> Perhaps! This reminds me of something that happened just last year. I was trying to buy a Shinkansen ticket and was having a problem with the machine. So, I go to the counter and this very stern-looking man in his 50's is behind it. I ask him in Japanese if he speaks English, and he just shakes is head, keeping no expression at all on his face. I then show him what I had and tried to explain what I wanted in my broken Japanese, and when this became inconvenient for him, he switched to English and completed the transaction, with his expression turning from blank to mild disgust. There's definitely something about "the train guys!"
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< One interesting thing happened that made me think Osaka was more friendly (perhaps laid-back is a better way to put it). A group of us entered a train station but then realized that we were in the right location after all (after having bought tickets and entered, duh). When we brought the tickets back to the train guy, we were given refunds with a smile. ... I can't imagine such a thing happening in Tokyo. >>> I just remembered two of the reasons that I have a negative impression of Osaka: 1. At USJ, my hotel package came with a booklet of "front of the line" coupons, and I was given these at the hotel front desk. Once in the park when I tried to use them, there was this look of shock, a manager was summoned, and he kind of implied that I may have stolen it, since it had not been properly endorsed by a rubber stamp with today's date. I couldn't imagine at TDR that given a similar situation, there would be even the implication that the customer had done something wrong. 2. I once tried to check into a hotel in Osaka around 1pm, and the manager on duty in the lobby acted like I had made a completely unreasonable request, pointing to the sign that said "Check in time is 3pm." I wasn't demanding or even expecting a room to be available, but standard practice in the industry is that if you try to check in early, and they have a room available, they give it to you (why not?). But not at this place. It's interesting how little personal experiences like these can color our impressions of people and places so strongly, even when we know our sample sizes are tiny.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***when this became inconvenient for him, he switched to English and completed the transaction, with his expression turning from blank to mild disgust.*** lol...I KNEW it! ***There's definitely something about "the train guys!"*** Though now private, I wonder if this "culture" has to do with the fact that for so long the trains were a government entity. In any case, they certainly do give the impression (many of them, anyway) that you the customer are a nuisance, an annoying distraction from their far more important duties.
Originally Posted By Malin Not at all Mr X, enjoying the discussion. *** Let us know how Emirates is will you? I've heard good things about that airline! *** Will do I have also heard good things about the Airline, and it serves another bonus of flying from Gatwick instead of Heathrow. By the way do you think spending 10 nights in the Kansai region is too much, or am I better purchasing a Rail Pass before leaving and heading down to Tokyo for a few nights, before heading back to Osaka. I'm thinking 2 nights in Kyoto, followed by a further 3 in Tokyo, and finishing with 5 in Osaka.
Originally Posted By Mr X I wouldn't say 10 days is too much, it's a wonderful region with a LOT to see (I would highly recommend following some of SuperDry's advice..in fact I'm keeping it in mind myself for future excursions!)... A trip to Tokyo would add a lot of travel time to your trip, and unless you're really DYING to see TDR (couldn't blame ya ), I don't see why you couldn't relax and enjoy your 10 days exploring that area of Japan in a slow and enjoyable manner. (I'm thinking you're looking at FOUR big cities, assuming you are including nearby Kobe and Nara, not to mention lots of countryside/outdoors sort of experiences you can enjoy) YMMV...but if it were up to me, I would be HAPPY to spend 10-14 days in that area taking it all in. Having said all that however, if there are points of interest in Tokyo that you want to see, then of course it makes sense to devote a few days to that remarkable city as well.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***or am I better purchasing a Rail Pass before leaving and heading down to Tokyo for a few nights, before heading back to Osaka.*** Forgot about the rail pass option (SO jealous!)..that makes Tokyo a far easier excursion certainly. Here's a thought, since you've already experienced Tokyo many times (??), why not buy the rail pass and travel SOUTH instead? I've recently met a very interesting gentleman from Nagasaki (ouch...tough conversation starter!) and he loves to gush about the Kyushuu region and their many tourist destinations and hot springs resorts and the like. Sounds lovely (and more accessible from Kansai as well). Just another option...throwing it out there.
Originally Posted By Malin Ok quick update I have decided to now base myself in Osaka as recomended by Members on here. I will be staying at the Swissotel Nankai Osaka which is located above the Namba Station for the full 10 nights. The Hotel is only 35 mins away by train from the Airport. Has anyone either stayed here before or could tell me a bit more about the Minami area?
