Originally Posted By HokieSkipper SO it's going to be boring? Just 3rd party dining and shopping? What a surprise! /sarcasm
Originally Posted By Mickeymouseclub One aspect of DCA's Glowfest is the ability to "contain" humanity and be able to have security and management present. Anything like Glowfest in any DD area would invite legal problems . I know they were able to have PI and NYEve festivities for many past years...just not too sure about today's society...unfortunately. Disney and the real world are facing so many new challenges with crowding and crowd behavior. Don't you agree? If you were Disney would you go looking for uncontrollable FUN?
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>> Quincey Market (Boston, MA<<< Behind Fan. Hall? I didn't think it looked like that.... Looked much nicer! LOL. Fan/Quincy Hall is in the Federal Style.
Originally Posted By magic0214 Concept art is beautiful and eager to see the progress over the course of the next 3 years.
Originally Posted By Daannzzz It is pretty colorful artwork but The art work almost always seems to overstate what it will really look like so I would expect it to be a bit toned down. But I still think it is a bit bland and seems to be a continuation of their fetish for Warehouses, soundstages and hangers. I don't know if this has to do with the cost of themeing or not but it is a bit disappointing to me.
Originally Posted By TP2000 leemac, thanks for the info, even if it was a downer. Looking at all this, and reflecting on the info from Disney and insiders, it appears that this is... just a mall. A kind of dated, lightly themed mall, like those found in any big city or tourist trap in America. With brilliant themed dining soon to be announced by the brain trust that brought you Rainforest Cafe and T-Rex! (barf) A shame they didn't incorporate a trolley like they have at The Grove and Americana malls up in LA and Burbank. That could add kinetics to Hyperion Wharf and useful transportation from Cirque to the Marketplace. This topic got me thinking of a bigger question.... I have to wonder about folks living in Orlando. Is the only real option for restaurants and entertainment for them attached to some mega-theme park environment? Do they ever go to the symphony and then a nice dinner in a normal upscale restaurant downtown? Are there art galleries and funky shopping streets with pubs and little jazz clubs and coffee shops? Or is everything of an entertainment value in central Florida attached to Disney/Universal/Busch corporate theme parks? You never hear of any hip, trendy, funky, fun neighborhoods in Orlando that offer cool shopping and great dining options. Do those exist in Orlando? Or is it all sterile shopping malls and corporate funlands? If I were to venture off property in my rental car to get away from corporate mega-themeland, what would I find in Orlando when looking for a night out on the town?
Originally Posted By leemac <<Fan/Quincy Hall is in the Federal Style.>> Ugh - I meant to write something more specific about Quincy Market (it is actually a very specific form of Fed Style too). The late '80s/'90s saw a fetish of urban regeneration that was all about exposure - seeing the mismatched bricks, uneven entrances, vaulted bare ceilings etc and then turning them over the specialty retail. Quincy is one example - another prominent one is Old Pasadena along Colorado. Hyperion Wharf is trying for that (dated) look - i.e. as if those structures were previously used for other purposes. Granted Pleasure Island had a similar conceit - but that also reinforces my view that it is twenty years out of date. PI's structures didn't age well from an architectural POV.
Originally Posted By leemac <<A shame they didn't incorporate a trolley like they have at The Grove and Americana malls up in LA and Burbank. That could add kinetics to Hyperion Wharf and useful transportation from Cirque to the Marketplace.>> Transportation has always sucked at DTD. It should have been considered for West Side and for this new project. Sadly it was dismissed as being cost-inefficient. CdS and HoB continue to whine about being stuck in a corner of the development that most families don't want to walk to from the Marketplace. West Side suffered from a poor mix of adult-orientated specialty retail - they should have mixed it up once West Side was planned - moved some of the family-friendly locations to complement the cigar and guitar shops. They expect DisneyQuest to be the main draw - incredibly foolish. I must admit that I'm not a fan of Caruso's developments at Grove and Americana at Brand (in Glendale!). Too sterile and phony for my liking - the architecture is also too formulaic. However I love the idea - I just wish that the retail mix was better and that they had genuinely pushed the performing arts side as Rick promised. The small WET Design fountain and lawn at Americana isn't really enough. I do appreciate the pressure on space there though. That said mall design has become incredibly homogenized in the US. Most new malls look like Santa Monica Place - all glass and concrete (and SMP is one o the better examples). The days of being wowed by such fresh (at the time!) designs as Horton Plaza in San Diego are long gone. I can only think of a few that genuinely stood out for me - I loved Park Meadows in Denver (I've never seen the rustic hunting lodge look executed on that scale before) and the Bellevue Collection/Lincoln Square (Bellevue, WA) and the Somerset Collection in Troy, MI. Even then there is nothing innovative about them. For years Xanadu AKA Meadowlands (NJ) has promised to be the mall concept for the future. Maybe it will finally open next year - only 4 years late. I seriously need to get out more often - I'm spending too much time assessing retail space! ))
Originally Posted By leobloom >> Do they ever go to the symphony and then a nice dinner in a normal upscale restaurant downtown? << Yes, we do. But the tourists (Mickey Mouse lovers) don't. >> Are there art galleries and funky shopping streets with pubs and little jazz clubs and coffee shops? Or is everything of an entertainment value in central Florida attached to Disney/Universal/Busch corporate theme parks? You never hear of any hip, trendy, funky, fun neighborhoods in Orlando that offer cool shopping and great dining options. Do those exist in Orlando? Or is it all sterile shopping malls and corporate funlands? << Well, Winter Park is very much what you're describing, and there are other places that have lots of 'character' in the area (Mt. Dora, for instance). But if you're going to Winter Park or Mt. Dora, you're likely not spending a 7-day vacation at the theme parks. As for this Hyperion Wharf thing, yeah, I doubt many locals will be hitting this place up very often. Speaking for myself, there are plenty of good restaurants in Orlando that don't insist on the tired, 'over-themed' gimmick. But I wouldn't expect Disney to understand that.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "That fake wharf/warehouse look was replicated everywhere in the '90s from Cannery Row (Monterey, CA) to Jack London Square (Oakland, CA) to Navy Pier (Chicago, IL) to Quincey Market (Boston, MA). It is just so formulaic for me. It doesn't make it bad but it is a lazy concept IMHO." I thought the exact same thing when I saw the concept art.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "I must admit that I'm not a fan of Caruso's developments at Grove and Americana at Brand (in Glendale!). Too sterile and phony for my liking - the architecture is also too formulaic." AMEN! I love the concept of The Grove, but man, that place is one big ol' architectural gimmick that makes you feel like you've stumbled into a theme park.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA This new Hyperion Wharf looks a lot like The Block at Orange -- and that's not a compliment!
Originally Posted By dshyates One curious thing I noticed about the press release and that no one else has brought up. The press release doesn't have any real details. Of that 25% increase in dining. Not one name was mentioned. Is it possible that even at this point, Disney has few if any vendors/tenants signed up? Could this entire PI redo along with the "Press Release" be something to try and entice more interest of possble vendors?
Originally Posted By mstaft Yeah- I live close to Park Meadows mall in south metro Denver. Even after all these years, it is still a pretty stunning development. The new outside entertainment area on the same property is even more beautiful than the inside. Hard to believe but true.
Originally Posted By dshyates "Yeah- I live close to Park Meadows mall in south metro Denver. Even after all these years, it is still a pretty stunning development. The new outside entertainment area on the same property is even more beautiful than the inside. Hard to believe but true." Cool, I used to live in Southeast Aurora. Park Meadows was the closest mall to us. It is a beautiful mall. I haven't seen the newer oudoor area. If it is nicer than the inside I am sure it is great.
Originally Posted By Christi22222 Just moved away from Castle Rock, and I do like the Park Meadows theme and execution. But I still question the "outdoors" aspect of the new section. It does look nice. And the restaurants looked interesting; the two I tried were only ok, though. But I have been freezing or snowed on or sleeted on every time I've gone! What is it with Denverites that they think they are in So Cal? Drives me nuts. A few outdoor malls are fine, like Aspen Grove. But anymore, they are ALL outdoors. And the weather sucks quite often.
Originally Posted By GOB >> Looking at all this, and reflecting on the info from Disney and insiders, it appears that this is... just a mall. A kind of dated, lightly themed mall, like those found in any big city or tourist trap in America. With brilliant themed dining soon to be announced by the brain trust that brought you Rainforest Cafe and T-Rex! (barf)<< But isn't that what DTD at Anaheim is, too? There's only so many ways you can build a mall. >> For years Xanadu AKA Meadowlands (NJ) has promised to be the mall concept for the future. Maybe it will finally open next year - only 4 years late.<< I see this hulk entirely too much for my tastes. As a matter of fact, I drove by there yesterday. It's truly pitiful. I don't follow the project too much, but I can tell you that after attending the opening day Giants game, the thing is as ugly as it looks, and it's creepy to walk through the abandoned construction site on the way to/from the stadium.
Originally Posted By TP2000 leemac, very interesting thoughts on the state of mall development. They do all look alike now, especially in SoCal. Although at least The Grove and Americana broke out of the "tasteful Tuscan inspired beige stucco" look. Fashion Island was once a masterpiece of mid century modern design when it opened in '67, with the mall and big anchor stores designed by architectural heavyweight icons William Pereria and Welton Beckett (who also did the GE Progressland pavilion at the '64 World's Fair for Walt). It was stunning. Now the Irvine Company just finished a mega-million multi-year remodel on Fashion Island, and they turned it into... tasteful Tuscan-inspired beige stucco. It now looks like every other upscale strip mall and Lexus dealership between San Diego and Santa Barbara. Barf. Back to Orlando... I've done some Googling and I can't find any hip, urban neighborhood that has much on offer for an afternoon of exploring beyond the corporate theme parks south of town. Something like San Diego's Hillcrest or North Park or Portland's Pearl District or Hawthorne District or Seattle's Capitol Hill or Belltown. I get it that Orlando isn't a huge city, but cities like Portland and San Diego have hip, urban enclaves to explore, and they aren't much bigger than Orlando (Or are they?). I've looked at Winter Park, and the Morse Museum looks interesting with it's Tiffany glass collection. But there just doesn't seem to be a whole lot there in Winter Park. No gentrified funky neighborhood in downtown Orlando to explore? Is it really just all about theme parks and tourist-malls and Rainforest Cafe corporate dinners in Orlando? The locals must have a warped sense of reality, the poor dears.
Originally Posted By MousDad >>Looking at all this, and reflecting on the info from Disney and insiders, it appears that this is... just a mall.<< Disney said they removed PI for enhanced dining and shopping, which = mall. So, no surprise there. And a mall's a mall - I don't care how cutting edge or not so cutting edge the design is. That being said, a nice mall is better than a barren wasteland - but only as long as it thrives. But this area, no matter how successful the mall, will always be marred by the loss of what was here (in its prime) to a large, vocal portion of the fanbase. Disney will never be able to "La, la, la" (with ears held) and wait for that to pass, because it won't. So you're talking about a permanent stain on the area. And this area will always be in a precarious state, because as soon as any third party boards up and bails, it's back on the road to wasteland, no matter how cool the theming is. The measure of any mall is how many boarded up stores there are. A solid fix would have been to keep the profitable Disney entertainment venues as part of the new plan, to give stability to the area. They've left the AC in the concept art, which is either a sign of hope, or a nasty slap in the face to fans. I know where my money is.
