Originally Posted By utahjosh I know i'm among many gay people here on the boards, and I'm sorry if my words sound harsh to you. I don't mean to sound that way.
Originally Posted By utahjosh There is a scripture that says "the guilty taketh the truth to be hard, for it cutteth them to the very center."
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <I KNOW gay people who have chosen that lifestyle. To fit in.> To fit in? With who? The max 10% of everyone they know who's also gay (and in Utah, I would think the percentage that's gay and not closeted would be much smaller). If you want to "fit in" you generally try to be like everybody else. Sorry, Josh, this isn't ringing true; sounds like something you made up so you can claim you "know" that these people "chose" to be gay. Ain't buyin' it.
Originally Posted By gurgitoy2 "Whether or not someone is born with it or chooses it, I do not support homosexual activity. Everyone is born with challenges of one sort or another. That's what it is to me." So...do you not support autism, or any other "born with" condition? Being gay myself, I don't consider that a condition, but I'm comparing them only because you seem to lump all of them as "challenges" to which you may or may not approve of. You can say that some people you know are "gay" by choice because it's popular, but you will never really know for sure. Maybe they're telling you that because they have some hope to be straight someday, or maybe they are bisexual and are allowing the same-sex attraction to come through...but whatever...
Originally Posted By gurgitoy2 "There is a scripture that says "the guilty taketh the truth to be hard, for it cutteth them to the very center."" Maybe so, but this reaction can also happen when false accusations are thrown around. I recently had this kind of situation pop up with a family "friend". I use quotes because basically this peroson went on a tirade and tore into my family with all kinds of slander and accusations. None of it rang true, but this person was grasping at straws. The family took a hard stand against him, and fought back; not because what he said was true, but because he was attacking the family. What he said didn't hurt us, because it was not true, but we were upset that the friendship had to sour that way, and we, of course, had to defend the family. So, all of that to say...nice to quote scripture, but it's out of context and doesn't mean what you intend here.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <To fit in? With who?> Ever worked Disney entertainment? How about close ties with community theater and many other gay people in that group of friends? That's who. Also, people have always tried NOT to fit in with the establishment. <...sounds like something you made up so you can claim you "know" that these people "chose" to be gay.> Not made up. I'm not a liar.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 Did you ever consider that they might be telling you that they were just pretending to "fit in" because they were afraid of your reaction to the truth? I don't know anything about these people, but I have never heard, or met, anyone who was pretending to be gay to "fit in".
Originally Posted By utahjosh <Did you ever consider that they might be telling you that they were just pretending to "fit in" because they were afraid of your reaction to the truth? > No, I hadn't thought of that. But knowing them very well (I'm mainly thinking of 2 people: Patrick at WDW and Bradin here in Utah) And it's not so much "pretending to be gay." It's CHOOSING to live that way. I think there are a TON of people, almost anybody, who could choose to be that way. You just hang out with the right people, experiment with your sexuality, and then just claim you are Gay. I also know 2 GREAT men who spent many years living as gay men. They have both now come back to being heterosexual and are much happier for it. They are both members of my church, and they ARE happier, not just "pretending." I know them well.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <This is a POLITICAL battleground?> I said myself we're leaving the topic a while ago.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <And it's not so much "pretending to be gay." It's CHOOSING to live that way. I think there are a TON of people, almost anybody, who could choose to be that way. You just hang out with the right people, experiment with your sexuality, and then just claim you are Gay.> Let me say again that I don't believe this is the process for the majority of gay people. I think the majority are probably born "that way."
Originally Posted By plpeters70 <<I also know 2 GREAT men who spent many years living as gay men. They have both now come back to being heterosexual and are much happier for it.>> Well, I know alot of men who lived as straight, married men for many years who are "now" gay and much happier for it -- so I suppose anything is possible. <<I think the majority are probably born "that way.">> And yet, you still think that we are called by God to ignore our natural sexual preferences and live a life of abstinance, or pretend to be straight and procreate??
Originally Posted By gadzuux The whole 'nature vs nurture' is a red-herring argument. This is a topic where I'm something of a "subject expert", and although I know that it's generally not 'chosen', it doesn't matter. Don't let people confuse the matter with sidebars like 'born that way' or 'chosen' - it's a dead end. The point is do ALL americans get equality or not? Simple as that.
Originally Posted By gottaluvdavillains This whole thing is just odd - So Josh you know people let's say faking a gay lifestyle to fit in.. And that being Gay is a choice not who some one really is... I just find it so difficult to understand that way of thinking. So because these "people you know" want to work for Disney Entertainment or in Community Theater they are faking being Gay to fit in... How in the world does that make sense at all if by your accounts sexual orientation is a choice??? If it was a choice why would they need to -fake it- because if it was a choice why would those groups of people you selected as an example being Gay? If it's a choice lets take one of the biggest heart throbs of all time... Rock Hudson - who could have any woman he wanted - why would he have chosed to be Gay??? Josh someones sexual orientation is not a choice, it's who they are. Anyone telling you they are going to choose to be Gay is just trying to fit in with you - not the Gay community! The Gay community appears to be one of the most accepting groups of people out there! Maybe if more people had open minds and were willing to let people live the life they were meant to - this country would be a kinder, better place to live - maybe it wouldn't be a place where people had to hide who they really are - so others wouldn't call them names or throw stones at them.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>The point is do ALL americans get equality or not? Simple as that.<< Exactly. You know, for a heathen, you're okay, gadzuux.
Originally Posted By dshyates Josh, I have to say that you have one of the most naive takes on Homosexuality I have ever witnessed.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <And yet, you still think that we are called by God to ignore our natural sexual preferences and live a life of abstinance, or pretend to be straight and procreate??> Nope. I expect that whatever challenge we are given we can come to Christ and He has power to heal and change us.
