Originally Posted By utahjosh Sorry you've all been brainwashed by the gay agenda a little too much. ANd you believe i've been brainwashed by my religion. We'll all find out when we die, I guess.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <To fit in? With who?> <Ever worked Disney entertainment? How about close ties with community theater and many other gay people in that group of friends? That's who.> Those things end at the end of the working day. We all live in a 90% straight world. Not buying it. <<...sounds like something you made up so you can claim you "know" that these people "chose" to be gay.>> <Not made up. I'm not a liar.> I know this one from the inside, Josh. Not buying it. If these people told you they were gay and now they're straight, then I'm not buying THEM. < I think there are a TON of people, almost anybody, who could choose to be that way.> Then what you don't know about human sexuality - is a lot. And this is the problem - your view is colored by what you "think" - which is colored by what you think ought to be the case, which is colored by what you were brought up to believe. <I also know 2 GREAT men who spent many years living as gay men. They have both now come back to being heterosexual and are much happier for it.> Then they were bisexual to begin with. Bisexuality is a real thing, and probably more common than often thought. It doesn't mean absolute 50/50, it just means the ability to function sexually with either gender. But someone hard-wired straight just "choosing" to be gay or vice versa? Nope. Doesn't work that way.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <The point is do ALL americans get equality or not? Simple as that.> Well said. That is the bottom line.
Originally Posted By utahjosh Sorry Dabob, I totally disagree with you. Neither on of us will convince the other, either.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <Nope. I expect that whatever challenge we are given we can come to Christ and He has power to heal and change us.> Newsflash: I came to Christ years ago. AND I'm gay. And there's no contradiction. <Sorry you've all been brainwashed by the gay agenda a little too much.> Sorry - some of us just know what we're talking about, and some of us don't. That sounds harsh, but that's the way it is. You simply don't know about homosexuality what those of us who ARE gay do. Any more than I know what it's like to be black, or female, or Jewish. That's not your fault. But don't pretend you do.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <Sorry Dabob, I totally disagree with you. Neither on of us will convince the other, either.> Not when your mind's already made up. The difference is I know of what I speak, from the inside. You've got an ideology, and a religion. I've got my very life.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 <<Sorry you've all been brainwashed by the gay agenda a little too much.>> Do we have an agenda? Why didn't anybody tell me? They must have forgotten to give me that packet when I had my coming out party!! ;-)
Originally Posted By gottaluvdavillains <Sorry you've all been brainwashed by the gay agenda a little too much> WHAT??? If sexuality was a choice then how or why would there be the need for a Gay Agenda?? I really don't care what someone's sexual orientation is - As long as they are in a happy healthy relationship. I do however care if a happy, healthy couple cannot get married, adopt an otherwise unplanned/wanted child, have spousal healthcare, or survivior rights. To me love is blind... I do not beleive God put people here to test them. I do beleive God gave us the ability to love the one we were meant to - be it a man and a woman, two men, or two women - Love is Love.. We live in a country that is based on freedom and equality.. Many years ago their were other groups of people who were not free or treated equally - People stood up next to them and made changes! It's time for people to stand up again and show the world how united we stand for freedom and equality for all our citizens... not just those that conform to a narrow point of view.
Originally Posted By utahjosh I know, it's unreliable wiki, but plpeters70 seems to never have heard the phrase before! <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_agenda" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H...l_agenda</a>
Originally Posted By gadzuux >> Neither on of us will convince the other, either. << This gets back to what I posted way back earlier that you took such exception to - you believe what you believe because this is what your church teaches, and you will not accept the premise that your church and its teachings are wrong. And often malicious. You wave these statements away with "you don't understand" but I understand all too well, and so do plenty of other people, even if you don't. I'm not 'attacking' you when I tell you that human sexuality is more vast and varied than you will ever understand, and it's certainly not as cut and dried, black and white as you may believe. And that's the way your church likes it - fostering ignorance through group-think and fear. And there's the rub - logic and reason fly out the window when they conflict with church teachings. The church isn't bound by logic or reason because they trade in "faith", and as we all know, with faith anything is possible. Or so they'd have you believe. And you obviously do.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 << plpeters70 seems to never have heard the phrase before>> I, of course, was already quite familiar with the term - just trying for a bit of humor. But seriously, this kind of thinking is just silly - and, not surprisingly, something that conservatives came up with. From the link: <<"Homosexual agenda" (or "gay agenda") is a term used by social conservatives primarily in the United States, referring to advocacy of cultural acceptance and normalization of non-heterosexual orientations and relationships.>>
Originally Posted By Mr X ***You guys are filled with hate toward me.*** Where did THAT come from? With a couple of rare exceptions, I've seen nothing but people who reply as though they are quite fond of you (ofttimes even if they disagree with your take on things). Heck, I get a lot more anger and venom directed towards me here, and you don't see my crying about how "everyone is filled with hate towards me". Oh brother. Dude, need a tissue?
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Josh someones sexual orientation is not a choice, it's who they are. Anyone telling you they are going to choose to be Gay is just trying to fit in with you - not the Gay community! The Gay community appears to be one of the most accepting groups of people out there!*** Don't be so sure on this one. Having a friend who is a woman of transsexual experience (her preferred term), I hear all the time about prejudice she experiences from gays and how many gays can often be extremely transphobic. Just sayin.
Originally Posted By mele <<Sorry you've all been brainwashed by the gay agenda a little too much.>> Yeah, that one that says we deserve equality. Pity we let such foolish notions brainwash us.
Originally Posted By gottaluvdavillains <Whatever> Hmm - that is what my 17 year old would have said... Ohh and at 17 he thinks things should be equal for everyone not just for the narrow minded homophobics... He doesn't see things in black and white - he realizes there is a gray area that is open to everyone...
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Sorry you've all been brainwashed by the gay agenda a little too much.*** Okay, I usually try to be polite on this one but you go too far Josh. It's absolutely ridiculous for a person associated with the Mormons, which if not a true cult (debatable) is certainly one of the more extreme religious practices out there, to be giving other people crap about being brainwashed.
Originally Posted By ChurroMonster I am a gay man who grew up Mormon. I was as devoted to the religion as anyone ever could have been. I served in leadership positions and served a mission for two years. I know Mormonism. I lived it for 26 years. I knew I was attracted to males when I was about ten. It wasn't until I was about sixteen that I learned those feelings meant I was gay. It was a hard thing to accept since I had been brought up being taught by my church that homosexuality was one of the most evil sins there was. I didn't feel evil but the church made me feel that way. The Mormon church made me hate myself. I spent ten years of my life fasting and praying for God to change me. I never acted on my feelings and I never let anyone know I had them. Not even my own identical twin brother. So afraid I was of revealing my feelings that I spent every minute of every day trying to hide them from those closest to me. I dated some girls but it always felt wrong to me and I felt extremely guilty when some of them developed feelings for me. Serving a Mormon mission and living in such close proximity with guys I was attracted to was complete hell for me. But I got through it. I believed God would see my devotion and finally change the way I felt. It never happened. I struggled through a few more years of self-loathing and even kept trying to change my sexual orientation. Then one day in church they told us we were going to go door to door to get people to vote for Proposition 22. That's when it dawned on me that the church would never accept me for who I am. I knew I could never change. Either God hates me, there is no God, or he wants me to be gay. I left the church and never went back. Walking away has been cathartic but I walked away a damaged person. I will be dealing with the struggle I went through for the rest of my life. I bring up my personal story to illustrate my extreme disbelief that any Mormon would choose to be gay as Josh asserts. I know the Mormon church has softened its wording about homosexuals in recent years but the core belief remains the same: gay is evil. I can't speak for anyone else but for me it most certainly was not a choice.
