Originally Posted By Mr X Thanks for sharing, Churro. That sounds like a difficult experience to relate... My only advice would be to say that you don't HAVE to carry it around with you (I know that sounds "out there"), if you can perhaps focus on letting it go and live from now forward..works for some. Also, I believe that as we live and grow we can look at what others have done in different lights..and perhaps not "forgive them" per se but realize that everyone is in different spaces and struggle with different things and often times don't have the understanding needed to realize they've been hurtful. Josh, for example, seems like a nice enough guy and even though his views are upsetting some people I don't get the feeling that he's intentionally trying to be cruel or unreasonable. On the other hand, I'm completely in agreement with the folks who feel they need to fight back if a church or group is trying to inflict their views on others and impinging on peoples' rights via political means. As for the argument that some might choose to be gay because they're in the arts or whatever, I've been involved in the performing arts my whole life (Disney entertainment included, on two continents), and there are tons of gay people around but I've NEVER gotten the impression that any of the straight guys felt some sort of pressure to "be gay". Not at all. If anything, it's quite the opposite since the straight guys get to hang out with tons of attractive women and have very little competition. I suppose in some rarest of rare occasions that MIGHT happen in certain situations or professions, but I highly doubt it happens very often at all (IF at all). As for being gay as a form of "rebellion", I don't buy that for a minute. Being rebellious means doing what you want and doing what feels good no matter what people think. Why would such a person engage in activities that personally repulse them? Makes no sense at all.
Originally Posted By Mr X Giving this whole thing a little more thought, I'm also thinking that for people like Josh to claim that gay is a choice for some, it probably has something to do with the "ick" factor. I think people like him can't possibly fathom that alternate sexual preferences are REALLY "good" for anyone, and that even the gays are sort of grossed out doing it (but, somehow, do it anyway?). Given that, I can see where some people can somehow fathom that "choice" thing, since obviously it would be icky for them but they could do it IF they really HAD to (anyone can, just look at institutionalized homosexuality).
Originally Posted By ChurroMonster I'd like to know if Josh feels it's possible for him to choose to be physically attracted to guys.
Originally Posted By gadzuux I appreciate your sharing your story, churro. And as you probably know by now, it's not an unusual one. It happens all the time. It's a tough thing to push through, and you probably also know that you have found the right path. To thine own self - be true. Anything else can lead to mental disorder and desparate unhappiness. You deserve peace of mind, contentment and self esteem. Everybody does. But not everybody understands how easily those basic commodities can be threatened. Church going people who feel free to condemn others and sit in judgement over matters they know nothing about are not usually motivated out of malice. It's out of ignorance - they cannot understand, or they choose not to understand. Or they believe that faith alone can "cure" anything. If you're still not cured, well then you just don't have enough faith, do you. It's yet another personal failing. Only it isn't. You don't owe these people anything, although they'll tell you otherwise. But you know something that they don't - that everyone has their own life to lead and you can waste your life trying to live up to someone else's unreasonable expectations. I suspect that maybe you've also endured some manner of banishment from your community and possibly even your own family. If so, that can be really tough to adjust to. Maybe time will help them to come around. I hope so, because there's no turning back. I wish for you every happiness.
Originally Posted By ChurroMonster Thanks for your kind words. (You too X!) Actually my family hasn't banished me at all. Most of them just kind of ignore it because I think they don't really know what to say. The ones I'm closest to have been nothing but loving and accepting.
Originally Posted By ChurroMonster Oh, I should add that the most tolerant members of my family are no longer Mormon either.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Naibe doesn't even begin to cover it.." Naive does, but naibe?
Originally Posted By mele It makes me so sad to hear stories like yours, Churro. Right now, I have many friends who live in smaller, southern communities who do not feel like they can be themselves. Either that or their families would not understand. I don't think people who are against homosexuality can understand what if feels like to go through this. How could they and still be against it?
Originally Posted By gurgitoy2 "Nope. I expect that whatever challenge we are given we can come to Christ and He has power to heal and change us." Ok...then why aren't more sick "healed" by God? Why are there deformities, and diseases that he does not heal? Why would he take preference over one person and not another? Is that a just and kind God?
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Ok...then why aren't more sick "healed" by God? Why are there deformities, and diseases that he does not heal? Why would he take preference over one person and not another? Is that a just and kind God?*** Circular logic can explain EVERYTHING gurgi. One example I recently received from a family member claimed that the reason god hasn't intervened in the terrorist attacks on New York or the natural attacks on New Orleans were because "we asked him to leave" (an assault on the whole "separation of church and state" thing, I suppose). I suppose all those devoted folks in Church every Sunday praying for intervention didn't count, or something.
Originally Posted By gurgitoy2 Yeah, it is circular logic. I grew up fundamental Baptist...pretty much as evangelical as you can get. So, I can totally relate to Churro's story...I had a similar one. I have seen that circular logic SO many times over my lifetime, and I see it for what it is...but it's still pretty depressing.
Originally Posted By gurgitoy2 Oh, and I can't tell you how depressing it is being "beat down" as a kid with the whole gay=evil thing. It's pretty demoralizing and causes people to live in fear of being found out. What kind of life is that? Why would anybody "choose" that? I know I sure as heck didn't...why would I when I was told in no uncertain terms that it was one of the worst sins imagineable?
Originally Posted By ecdc Thanks for sharing your story, churro. It's a sad and all too common one in Mormonism. I admire you for choosing yourself over dogma - you deserved better. I have a few friends who are part of Affirmation. I don't quite know why, frankly, but they continue to try and navigate their Mormonism and their homosexuality together. It's a remarkable struggle. Unfortunately, the church will just tell you that this is your cross to bear. It's a struggle and it's sad, but just live your life celibate and then in the next life it'll all turn out ok. Mind, this all comes from leaders who themselves are not gay and who don't know anything about what it's like. Bit convenient, no? What's truly sad, as it devastates so many lives, is this recurring belief within Mormonism at the grassroots level that if men just find a nice girl, it'll all work itself out. There's countless heartbreaking stories of guys who go to BYU, know they're gay, but marry anyway in the hopes that it'll turn them straight. Imagine the pain and struggle of that couple and their respective families. Of course, I have yet to meet anyone or hear of anyone turned "straight" by this strategy. I've heard of dozens of divorces and pained lives, however. As an aside, I've done research on Mormon President George Albert Smith's life and I believe a compelling, albeit entirely circumstantial, case can be made that he felt same-sex attraction. Mormon Patriarch (not President) Joseph F. Smith was released as Church Patriarch for same-sex attraction as well. Perhaps if we can get these details and stories out, Mormons will truly realize that this is no choice and simply not a "cross to bear."
Originally Posted By dshyates "know they're gay, but marry anyway in the hopes that it'll turn them straight. Imagine the pain and struggle of that couple and their respective families." This was my case, except without the Mormonism aspect. I "knew" I was gay, but because of pressures from my family and society in general, married and stayed with her for 18 years. It didn't work. I wasted 18 years of her life and mine. We have 2 beautiful daughters who now do the "custody shuffle" every other weekend. It was an unforgivable waste of her time, and great diservice to the family I created. But all we can do is move forward.
Originally Posted By AgentLaRue "There is a scripture that says "the guilty taketh the truth to be hard, for it cutteth them to the very center."" Indeed: "You just come and ATTACK me and my beliefs (or what you THINK are my beliefs) on a thread I created hoping to bring people TOGETHER and foster PEACE."
Originally Posted By DAR <<We have 2 beautiful daughters who now do the "custody shuffle" every other weekend.>> You were able to those two girls into the world that's all that matters.
Originally Posted By DAR Edit: You were able to bring those two girls into the world that's all that matters.
