Originally Posted By barboy plpeters I was wrong to say your idea was absurd. Sorry. It wasn't absurd at all and it should be evaluated further.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Well, I don't think it sounds like the show was being politically correct. I think they simply factored in that it will take a fair amount of time and trouble to kill a couple of terrorists, more time that you might think, time better spent storming the cockpit.
Originally Posted By barboy ///If we're to believe that these guys are dumb enough to be "distracted" by a cell phone, tying them up should be easy enough./// I'm not sure if you caught gadzuux's point of the cell phone going off. I'll expand: the show tells us to first 'rope in' 3-5 others who are very near and plan an attack. One must enlist only those very close by so as to not draw the attention of the terrorists. once the 4-6 man strike team is assembled then we are to create a distraction. Now the cell phone is not the best distraction. But if it were kicked 2 to 3 rows in front of where the passengers were herded then it could work. Once ringing terrorist *might* think that there is a hold out/stow away from the crowd hiding below the seat height and want that rogue passenger back where he belongs(after all terrorists can't have passengers doing their own thing and being all scattered--it's just not sound practice). When the terrorist comes down the aisle to look in that specific row for some maverick passenger that's when the strike team pounces.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***why would you want to spend valuable time killing the first 2 terrorists? Wouldn't that create additional noise, take more energy, and make it all the more likely to ruin the element of surprise on the remaining hijacker?*** I'm with barboy, you really think that if you "tie them up" they won't struggle and fight and make noise? Dead might be a bit much, I'd say more like "if it happens it happens", but certainly you'd want to incapacitate them COMPLETELY and that would mean one passenger covers his mouth while another one chokes him with a belt or something. But on that same line of discussion... ***///Mmmm hmmm. It takes a surprising amount of strength/// not if bashing in a face with a high heel or taking a car key and jamming in a throat or poking out eyes. Remember this is performed after the terrorist is held down by 3 men.*** Barboy will you kindly shut up before the NSC or the FCJ or whatever decides to take away our keys, high heels, belts, anything metal, anything fabric that can be used as a hanging device, etc, etc... Keep it up and we'll all be flying naked!
Originally Posted By TomSawyer I kind of think that once someone tries to kill you then you have the obligation to return the gesture. It's only polite, and there's no reason to descend into barbarity in a situation like this.
Originally Posted By barboy I got a bit sidetracked from my original point of PC BS on 'roids'. The show looked terribly unrealistic during the tie up phase. They showed crew members and passengers search the cabin for something, anything which was using up valuable time. And then using up more time to apply the crude tie up materials to the 3 highjackers ............as if incapacitating the assailants by gouging out eyes, kicking them 10 hard times in the gonads until they pass out or punching them in their faces until they are unrecognizable and brain dead, was not allowed. You should have seen the tie up jobs, gags and blindfolding they were pushing us to employ when all they had to do was bash a laptop computer upside their heads enough times or grab a pot of hot coffee from the galley and pour it in their faces while being held down and then beat them silly with the coffee pot. You grab anything and everything and "go to work on homes" quickly and violently to get to the next stage of survival. There's no time for revenge and there's no time for civil treatment towards the subdued. It was clear that the show did not want to send a message of 'prisoner' abuse.
Originally Posted By barboy ///Barboy will you kindly shut up before the NSC or the FCJ or whatever decides to take away our keys, high heels, belts, anything metal, anything fabric that can be used as a hanging device, etc, etc... Keep it up and we'll all be flying naked! /// LOL! Very good.
Originally Posted By Mr X Blinding the bastards seems like a good idea in any case (tied up or not). Can't fight if ya can't see.
Originally Posted By Mr X www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RHBOfM9CFQ I think something like this would incapacitate them nicely. (I purposefully left it as a non-link since it's a scene with some naughty words in it, but well worth a look if the kids aren't around)
Originally Posted By gadzuux I thought the weak point in the plan was the initial rush - and the cell phone distraction. Remember - I saw the show, and these bad guys were highly trained and armed with sharp blades. And they were 'on guard' for any shenanigans the whole time. Yet our hero McGuyver and his insta-posse are able to overtake them armed with ... seat cushions. That part of the plan might not play out as easily as it did on TV.
Originally Posted By barboy ///I thought the weak point in the plan was the initial rush - and the cell phone distraction./// A better distraction would be for the most pretty female take one for the team and take off her top and say "I know you want some of this!" (assumes, of course, that the assailants are heterosexual).
Originally Posted By TomSawyer The seat cushions would actually be a fairly good defensive weapon against a small blade. And there are tons of bags and items in the overhead bins that can also be used. The narrowness of the plane means that you really can't flank, so you need to come at them from the front with everything you've got. They maintain control through fear and by assuring everyone that they'll be fine if they just do what they are told. I think that people are going to assume that they are already dead if the plane is hijacked so the only option is to fight. As far as tying up any that you manage to subdue? It is a skill to tie someone down so they can't get out. You need to know what kind of knots to use and how to tie them down to limit how much muscle force they can use effectively. (You can apply a lot more force bending you arm than extending it, for example. ) I'm with the group that says you need to make absolutely sure that you can't be attacked from behind. If you can do it without killing them, fine. You could at least hobble them. Or make them watch the inflight version of Twilight over and over until they swallow their own tongues in an attempt to choke themselves to death. I doubt that a hijacker would get to the cockpit these days. And I doubt that they'd be able to subdue a plane like they did before 9/11.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Barboy will you kindly shut up before the NSC or the FCJ or whatever decides to take away our keys, high heels, belts, anything metal, anything fabric that can be used as a hanging device, etc, etc... Keep it up and we'll all be flying naked!" Last flight I was on Guiliana Rancic was on board. That would be okay with me.
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 If the hijackers were effectively holding a planeful of passengers at bay with some weapon, and then -- surprise! -- a posse of passengers overpowered them, the posse would not have to use high-heeled shoes or laptops to kill the hijackers. They could use the hijackers own weapons. Duh.
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 Which brings up the point... If all the hijackers were using to keep the passengers at bay is smooth, reassuring talk -- or if it turns out that their guns aren't loaded -- there's no need to kill those two. Just have a few fat guys sit on them while everyone else on the plane tries to bust down the door to the cockpit. But if a single terrorist has gotten into the cockpit, it's probably too late, anyhow.
Originally Posted By Princessjenn5795 That makes sense Inspector 57. I always end up next to a person weighing three or four hundred pounds. With obesity becoming such a huge problem in this country there should be at least a couple of people heavy enough to sit on a terrorist for awhile. Plus, unless all the guys on board are total wusses, I am sure someone could just punch them once or twice until they are unconscious and then disarm them. After they have no weapons who really cares if they wake up again, presumably the same people that punched them out in the first place would still be on the plane and could just do it again.
