Originally Posted By gadzuux For that matter, all political speeches - especially high profile ones like conventions - are "borrowed" from others. The candidates may steer and guide the speech, but they're largely written by others. As to the plagerism thing - it was twenty one years ago, he had used the comments in question in speeches several times prior (with attribution) and yeah - it ended his presiential campaign. What more do you want?
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>It seems no one actually likes John McCain all that much.<< I like John McCain a lot, and am very pleased and proud that he is my party's candidate. Before this became a game of scorched earth, there were many on these boards who declared their support of McCain, whether they intended to vote for him or not. But as soon as he actually got the nomination, it was back to the same old stuff. It is perfectly valid to question Obama's qualifications to hold high office. Despite constant repetition to the contrary, no one has yet shown us the resume that has reassured the American people that Obama actually is "The One." There were any number of well qualified Democrats running in the primaries. The choice was made to go with the "rock star." Now it will be up to the voters to decide who will be leading this country. (And if it is Barack, I think we all know it will really be his "advisors" who run the show. But why should that be any different from the last eight years?)
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Ho ho ho. Three posts in a row to defend Biden the gaffe machine by pointing out that... that's what they all do!<< Yes, and the umpteenth post in a row on...the Democrats! What a shock! I keep waiting with baited breath for what Republicans actually think of their *own* candidate. I continue to be disappointed. Oh well, no surprises there. They've made a practice out of attacking and swiftboating the last 8 years (what on earth are they going to do - stand on their own accomplishments. Yeah, right.)
Originally Posted By ecdc >>It is perfectly valid to question Obama's qualifications to hold high office. Despite constant repetition to the contrary, no one has yet shown us the resume that has reassured the American people that Obama actually is "The One."<< Apparently it's the only valid thing to do. Just take a look at these boards or the approach the Republican party is taking. And I love the hypocrisy. McCain says he doesn't know how many houses he has a couple of weeks ago, and when Democrats use it, it's "gotcha" politics. It's not about the issues and it's just all so silly. But apparently it makes perfect sense to dig up statements from a lifetime of political service, no matter how old, and insist this is who Biden is. I see. So when a Republican makes a gaffe, it's unimportant and anyone who'd say otherwise is just going after a non-story. But when a Democrat has a gaffe, it's fair game to talk about. Noted.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <he said "that's not the REAL Michelle Obama that gave that speech last night". Amazing.> I would not be surprised to learn that Michelle Obamas' feelings about America today and other issues might be different that what she said in that HUGE speech. Would you?
Originally Posted By ecdc >>And if it is Barack, I think we all know it will really be his "advisors" who run the show.<< Not only do we not "all" know that, I'm curious as to how on earth you know it. After all, you keep insisting we know so little about Barack Obama. Yet for someone who knows so little about him, you seem mighty certain of how he'll govern. Very telling indeed.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>I would not be surprised to learn that Michelle Obamas' feelings about America today and other issues might be different that what she said in that HUGE speech. Would you?<< Conservatism at its best. Let's not believe what someone actually says. I have to remain suspicious of them. I have to believe anything I can leach on to so that I don't have to like them or believe them. Truthiness rears its head again.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>(And if it is Barack, I think we all know it will really be his "advisors" who run the show. But why should that be any different from the last eight years?)<< And I love this approach. Yes, it's actually Barack Obama that's like President Bush. Not John McCain. Wow. Just wow. Like the swiftboating 4 years ago has shown us, up really is down in the conservative fantasyland.
Originally Posted By gadzuux Yes - I would be surprised. She gave a heartfelt speech about her husband and her family and the improbable path that has taken them all the way from chicago's south side to princeton to the platform of the democratic national convention. How likely is it that she's secretly a mean and embittered america-hater - as the GOP talking points would have us believe?
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>But apparently it makes perfect sense to dig up statements from a lifetime of political service, no matter how old, and insist this is who Biden is.<< And once again, the game of move-the-goalposts, spike-the-ball, and do-that victory-dance is on. Nowhere did I say, or even imply that what I was saying summed up Joe Biden's life or career. It was a direct response to the idea that Biden is "just perfect" as a candidate. It's a well known fact that, as a candidate, the guy's a train wreck. On the other hand, as a leader, he does a good job. I would venture to say that he would make a far better leader than Barack Obama. Hence, the decision to add him to the ticket. (Not to say I agree with Biden's politics. Or Hillary's. But I sincerely believe that either of them would make a far better leader than Obama.)
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>For that matter, all political speeches - especially high profile ones like conventions - are "borrowed" from others. The candidates may steer and guide the speech, but they're largely written by others.<< Speechwriters do, indeed, write speeches on behalf of those who hire them for that purpose. Taking the words of others and claiming them as your own, on the other hand, is plagarism. It is absurd to even attempt to draw a comparison between hiring a speech writer and stealing the work of others.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Nowhere did I say, or even imply that what I was saying summed up Joe Biden's life or career.<< No you didn't. But you did say "Biden on religion" and then offer a one-line quote. Surely an oversimplification. Your post was a hatchet job on Biden by providing quotes - some over 20 years old, for crying out loud - that implied this is who he was. When called on the absurdity of this, then you say "Well, he'd make a good leader." It just won't fly. So, how about that John McCain, huh?
Originally Posted By utahjosh <Conservatism at its best. Let's not believe what someone actually says.> Yes. A liberal has never done that before. Sheesh.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Yes. A liberal has never done that before. Sheesh.<< So your response is "Yes, I am making stuff up but it's ok because liberals do it to?" Good to know.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder Well, what's going on here is that after eight years of being able to skewer the genuine idiot that is in the Oval Office now, given a little encouragement, Dug and the others can now gleefully play gotcha with Biden quotes. Big deal.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <So your response is "Yes, I am making stuff up but it's ok because liberals do it to?" Good to know.> About as good as your response in a nutshell: "That's what conservatives always say"
Originally Posted By ecdc >>I still don't think Bush is an idiot.<< This can't be ignored. Do you have some examples of why Bush isn't an idiot or incompetent? Cause those of us that fall on the "Bush is an idiot" side of the coin can cite any number of examples to back us up.
Originally Posted By utahjosh I shouldn't have to start with the premise that Mr. President is an idiot. In what way has he been dumber than congress or any other politician? You may be able to persuade me.
