Originally Posted By mawnck >>In what way has he been dumber than congress or any other politician? << Took a strong military, a healthy economy, a huge budget surplus, and an ample supply of allies, and chucked them all to make his oil company bosses richer. Arguably, a lot of other congresspeople were also dumb for letting him get away with it (as were an awful lot of voters), but at least most of them had sufficient command of English to attempt to defend their stupidity.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder Here's a start, sort of. <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joe-scarborough/is-bush-an-idiot_b_27408.html" target="_blank">http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...408.html</a>
Originally Posted By utahjosh <Took a strong military, a healthy economy, a huge budget surplus, and an ample supply of allies, and chucked them all to make his oil company bosses richer.> You put all of that on the president alone?
Originally Posted By utahjosh I'll admit that he's not articulate and great with public speaking. But I still don't see him as an idiot.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder Come on, Josh. Who gave the world the finger and unilaterally invaded Iraq? That act alone, after having never been preemptive like that, has scared many countries and its citizerns away from the U.S.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 ...and we really don't need as our next president someone who thought that was a great idea.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "..and its citizerns..." And if it has scared the citizerns, think of what it has done to the citizens.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <Come on, Josh. Who gave the world the finger and unilaterally invaded Iraq?> Congress did. And President Bush.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder Congress didn't invade Iraq, our country, at Bush's behest, did.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <Congress didn't invade Iraq, our country, at Bush's behest, did.> I'm pretty sure congress voted for this. Am I wrong?
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder Without re-hashing all the misinformation that they were fed, yes. Point is though, it was Bush's call.
Originally Posted By utahjosh Let's see if I understand: Bush + misinformation = bad decision means Bush is an idiot. Congress + misinformation = bad decision means it's Bush's fault.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder Let's start from square one, Josh. Who decided, on his own, to invade Iraq? Bush. Whether or not Congress approved it is irrelevant.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <Who decided, on his own, to invade Iraq? Bush> Nope. Congress had to approve it. He couldn't invade on his own. <Whether or not Congress approved it is irrelevant.> I disagree. Isn't that why we HAVE A congress? Checks and Balances and all that?
Originally Posted By utahjosh So Bush AND Congress are both idiots, because they both approved the invasion of Iraq. Is that what you're trying to say?
Originally Posted By ecdc >>So Bush AND Congress are both idiots, because they both approved the invasion of Iraq. Is that what you're trying to say?<< I'd say that Bush is an idiot, not so much for invading Iraq, but for the complete bungling of it afterwards. I'd say those in Congress, including Hillary Clinton and John Kerry (and John McCain, for that matter) were political cowards who went along with what was popular, and our young men and women paid for it with their lives. I have no doubt Bush thought invading Iraq was a good idea. Here's where the idiocy comes into play, Josh. First, by all accounts, he oversimplified the situation. He didn't understand some basic facts - 1) That Iraq as a country has existed less than 100 years. It's borders were determined by the British. 2) Sunni and Shi'ite divisions have existed for centuries. Rather than acknowledge these kinds of issues which create complexities, Bush was a simpleton who squawked like a parrot about lofty, but ultimately meaningless things like "freedom" and "democracy." I say meaningless because in this case they were - we didn't know what it was supposed to mean or how it was supposed to happen. I get that George W. Bush thought it was as simple as Iraqis sipping a Bud Light and then they'd be addicted to freedom. But there's a fine line between idealism and stupidity, and this President pole vaulted over it. And if that's not enough idiocy for you, then look at how he executed the war. He gave no-bid contracts to Halliburton and government audits have shown that we lost 8 billion dollars in Iraq. And I don't mean we "lost" it in the sense of it was poorly invested or spent unwisely. I mean we literally lost it - we don't know where it is. The President repeatedly puts loyalty before competence, Josh. That's how we ended up with Paul Bremmer and "you're doin' a heckuva job, Brownie." For example, Bush replaced a 60 year old Harvard-educated physician in charge or Iraq's health care infrastructure with a 25 year old recent college graduate who was the daughter of a campaign donor. I'm not kidding, Josh. These are all well-documented things. He put Monica Goodling, a graduate of Pat Robertson's school, as a high ranking justice department official. He kept Rumsfeld long after he should have ditched him. He tried to appoint Harriet Miers to the Supreme Court. Josh, I get that your ideologically in line with Bush for his stance on Jesus and gays and whatnot. But c'mon, man, the evidence is there for anyone to see. This isn't about people who disagree with Bush calling him stupid because we don't like his policies. This is about him not even being able to pull off the policies he institutes, whether it's Iraq, no child left behind, or the tanking economy.
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>...you did say "Biden on religion" and then offer a one-line quote.<< Context is apparently meaningless when one is determined to demonize an opponent. The conversation was not about Joe Biden's religious views. It was about Biden's well known propensity to make bone-headed statements. It was in reply to the assertion that Biden is "perfect" as a campaigner. >>Your post was a hatchet job on Biden by providing quotes - some over 20 years old, for crying out loud - that implied this is who he was.<< No, the response was not to a question of "who he was," but, rather obviously, to what he offers to the campaign. Some here claim it is just the Republicans who play gotcha, demonize, and smear. But it seems clear to me that it isn't a Republican or a democrat thing. And it's alive and well right here. It really isn't possible to have any kind of meaningful conversation about anything in an atmosphere like this. I'm done for now. Enjoy yourselves.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder So sign me up for post 128 and I'm done. I didn't expect to have to get into a debate over it. Bush is the worst president we've ever had, period. That makes him an idiot.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>Bush is the worst president we've ever had, period.<< I heard a historian asked about this on TV. He said no way, Bush was NOT the worst president we'd ever had. But he was definitely the worst president since Benjamin Harrison.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Most historians I've seen say "worst since James Buchanan." Either way, not exactly a ringing endorsement.
