Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney >>>"goes against everything the MK is supposed to be about." And, what is that?<<< "Adults are interested if you don't play down to the little 2 or 3 year olds or talk down." "Disneyland is a show." "It's kind of fun to do the impossible." "It's no secret that we were sticking just about every nickel we had on the chance that people would really be interested in something totally new and unique in the field of entertainment." "We believed in our idea - a family park where parents and children could have fun- together." There you go again, Mr. X. Quoting some old, dead guy. What makes you think he wouldn't love the playground? After all, he didn't have to deal with pesky institutional investors who expect results every quarter ;-) BTW, the scary thing is that many, many people believe today's WalMart/outsourcing/selling American assets to foreign interests is the only way we can compete. I have news for them. If that's that case, I hope they are very rich because capitalism has run its course and is dead and we're about to become China's (female dog).
Originally Posted By TomSawyer No one is saying that this is what WDW's planners and creators envisioned. And just because someone isn't 100% opposed to the playground, that doesn't mean they don't care about Disney history. I think we'd all prefer to see a great attraction in this space. But I just don't think it's a bad thing for the littler kids to have a place to explore that is a little safer and easier to reach than Tom Sawyer Island. When they get too big for the play area, TSI will be waiting for them.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<I have news for them. If that's that case, I hope they are very rich because capitalism has run its course and is dead and we're about to become China's (female dog).>> Yea. Right. That is the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard. It certainly casts doubt on your credibility.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Okay sorry to over re-act. And by the way I take it as a total complement to be confused with vbdad55 however he may see that differently. < I certainly have no issue with that-- and I'm flattered -- we're both DVC Dads !
Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney "Yea. Right. That is the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard. It certainly casts doubt on your credibility." Really? I have no doubts about my credibility whatsoever. Others here, and out there, that's a different issue entirely. And if that's the most ridiculous statement you've ever heard, you really need to get out more often ... perhaps take a roadtrip.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Really? I have no doubts about my credibility whatsoever.>> Well you should. Capitalism HAS NOT run its course. The very threat you perceive is based on the Chinese government allowing a capitalist economy to develop. So even if China were to give us a can of whoop-a**, it would be because of capitalism thriving, not because it had run its course. But as usual, China poses no long term threat. As the invisible hand of capitalism takes hold in China, the realities of an international economy will result in the cost of labor in China going up. While Chinese wages will not match those in the U.S., they will go up enough that when you add the increased costs of shipping, etc. the U.S. will remain competitive. That is exactly what happened in Japan. In many instances Japanese are now more expensive than comparable U.S. made products. So... 1) Capitalism has not run its course; in fact it is doing better than ever. 2) The U.S. will not become China's female dog, just as we have not become Japan or Korea's female dog. I hope you've enjoyed Econ 1001. You might want to take a course or two on your own.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip LuvDatDisney... I really don't mean to be as harsh as I perhaps sound. There is just absolutely no evidence that capitalism has run its course. In fact there is a huge amount of evidence to the contrary. Now if you wanted to say that the days of American manufacturing has run its course that would be a very reasonable opinion. I'm not sure that I believe that either, but at least it is a realistic position.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Have to say, while China continues to chew through natural resources at a pace even quicker than us right now....to tack on to Trippy's comments, the outsourcing of IT jobs to China has slowed tremendously in the last 5+ years for exactly the reasons mentioned, the cost of skilled labor has already risen beyond what most major corporations consider to be of enough benefit to the bottom line to continue moving jobs. Unskilled labor will catch up eventually - just that they have such a large pool to pick from it may take a while. The countries currently taking white collar jobs from America are located in South America...and I know from whereof I speak on this one......
Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney I am not taking your words harshly at all. Many of my closest friends would agree with you. I don't. We build nothing in this country. We have companies that would like to run on nothing but temp workers. We have a national health-care crisis, that no one believes exists until it affects them or a loved one. We ship well-paying jobs to massive call centers in India where 'Stephanie Jones' takes your call and reads from a script tighter than a Disney guest relations manager. We allow companies to default on pensions, but make it tougher for Joe Average to file for bankrupcy and allow companies like CitiBank to chase him/her for life if he defaults on an account. We in no way compete with Japan on building cars, electronics or anything else. By the way, just wait another five years when GM either disappears or becomes about 1/4 the size it is today. We don't compete with China because well, Americans have a problem with making $25 a month. We are becoming a service economy and ... you know what? I'm ranting, and frankly I'd rather rant about Disney. So I apologize for putting that inflamatory statement in my post. I stand by it 100%, but I don't want to discuss it anymore than I want to discuss war in Iraq, our president or how this country has become polarized by the religious right. That's what WE is for. And I don't go there. So I'm sorry again if my post bothered anyone ... let's go back to discussing Disney business and why some people believe you can't put out quality in this country anymore lest those pesky institutional investors cause havoc on The Street.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper If the Pooh Playground doesn't belong at Disney World then Pleasure Island doesn't belong at Disney World. The whole family can't be taken to P.I. Much of what used to occur at P.I. was inappropriate for anyone under the age of 16. Now, I like(d) PI as much as the next person. What I'm saying is there is room for both to exist. Family Rides, Thrill Rides, Kids Rides and yes...even a little Playground.
Originally Posted By Labuda "The countries currently taking white collar jobs from America are located in South America...and I know from whereof I speak on this one......" Let's not forget India, vbdad. They're getting LOADS of tech industry jobs there. Even my own employer recently annou ced they're creating another 10,000 jobs in India soon.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <We build nothing in this country. We have companies that would like to run on nothing but temp workers. We have a national health-care crisis, that no one believes exists until it affects them or a loved one. We ship well-paying jobs to massive call centers in India where 'Stephanie Jones' takes your call and reads from a script tighter than a Disney guest relations manager. We allow companies to default on pensions, but make it tougher for Joe Average to file for bankrupcy and allow companies like CitiBank to chase him/her for life if he defaults on an account. < you are correct but understand that the general populace has had this 'dirty little secret' hidden from them for years .....I am an OD ( Organizational Development) professional...and I can tell you how many white collar jobs have been shipped out of the US in the last 5 - 8 years approx 8,000,000. I am not going to ranthere, but for anyonemore interested, do a Google on 'Shared Services' - and read. This started over 10 years ago, and started in Europe. Every major US firm now has some form of this and itis growing by leaps and bounds. One thing tough -- India sort of tapped out as a market to move things to....they have lots of people, but most of the skilled people are now employed...and the cost of labor there is rising...making it less attractive to the bottom line. South America and other parts of SE Asia less expensive... two books I recommend: Essentials of Shared Services by Bryan Bergeron and Shared Services, Mining for Corporate Gold by Quinn,Cooke & Kris.... 5 steps to change 1. Identification - identifying the back end ( office) processes to be moved 2. Mobilization - processes are moved outof the disparate centers of activity within the parent company 3. Consolidation - further streamline operations and identifying unnecessary employees, mgmt and process support 4. Extraction - resources areput into place in the new locations ( significant cost ssavings) - downsizing done, and employee who no longer fit are let go 5. Encapsulation - new employees are given standard functions to perform - very few layers of management - turnover Ok as it keeps costs down.. simplified procedures employees only do tightly defined tasks - move to others when help needed -- the final answer is that the parent company then sells of thenew consolidated call centers/ help centers / billing centers etc -- and buys the services back from them without having to deal with the HR side of the business. If you are in a major corp-- what stage are you in ? now back to Disney
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <"The countries currently taking white collar jobs from America are located in South America...and I know from whereof I speak on this one......" Let's not forget India, vbdad. They're getting LOADS of tech industry jobs there. Even my own employer recently annou ced they're creating another 10,000 jobs in India soon.< yeah you did, I read the releases -- however you are just a step behind us..I can tell you many of those jobs willmove from India within a few years -- we have cut our workforce there significantly due to rising labor costs...
Originally Posted By vbdad55 None of this is secret news - it is all there for the reading inthe financial sections...just done in small drabs by ALL major companies....that way it flies under the radar......but it addsup quickly. heck even Canada viewed as a lower cost alternative for many back office jobs...and there is smaller language/culture shock on those calls, many people would never know. Listen for keys words like PROcess instead of process..etc as giveaways. The $ exchange rate favorable and in some cases jobs in Quebec have a rebate back to companies for a period of time..as they try and grow their job base. In my home town one of the large banks is Harris Bank.....however they are now owned by the bank of Montreal and even the voices on the ATM's have Canadian accents. I have heard it in business seminars...if you sit behind a desk and do an administrative or financial job that does not require you to visit customers...be very afraid.....also if you can work from home.....well home can be off shore....
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom So does that mean that the Poo Playground is an undercover plot by third world countries to forever change capitalism as we know it. I knew anyone who ate all that honey had to be up to no good!
Originally Posted By DVC_dad hehehe Like you said... China has one heck of a pool. Size matters a ton.
Originally Posted By alisserae Has anyone every seen Barney's Playground at Universal? I had no problems with Pooh's Playground until I saw Barney's, boy did that put me to shame. If you ever have a chance, stop by and check it out. It's a very large indoor play area, themed to be an outdoor park. There's sand boxes, slides, climbing structures, interactive play areas that make noises and change colors; it was really quite incredible! While Pooh's Playground is certainly a great start, Barney's Playground is what I wish they'd have done.
