Originally Posted By dshyates So Disney has completed, unopened rooms and yet just announced 5 new on-prop partner hotels to be opening soon? 3 of which will directly compete with the unopened rooms, right? Someone needs to put down the crack pipe.
Originally Posted By nbodyhome >> I can't help but wonder if the space couldn't be used for something else at the moment like conferences or private parties << I'm not sure what kind of private parties would be had in a bunch of small, unfinished hotel rooms. As far as the onsite partners - I would guess it's because Disney doesn't have to deal with hiring/downturns in the economy so much with non-Disney establishments. They just collect the rent. Disney has more operating partners at DD as well (like Raglan Road and T-Rex).
Originally Posted By dshyates I was saying a while back that I wouldn't be surprised if in the next 20 years they actually start selling off some of their existing resorts to partners. I'd like to see Ritz take over the Deluxes and Marriott the Moderates and All-Stars. Seriously the worst Marriott I have stayed at had better beds, linens, and service than the WDW Deluxes. Who wouldn't want to crawl into one of Marriotts beds or Hyatts Heavenly Beds after a long day in the parks. I should also add that these comments about Disney hotels doesn't apply to Disneyland. At The Grand Ca. and the DLH the service was friendly and solid and if I'm not mistaken they use better linens than WDW.
Originally Posted By u k fan <<>> I can't help but wonder if the space couldn't be used for something else at the moment like conferences or private parties << I'm not sure what kind of private parties would be had in a bunch of small, unfinished hotel rooms. >> I kinda meant the communal areas!!!
Originally Posted By nbodyhome I am a huge fan of some of the operating participants at Disney. Cirque is fantastic. Raglan Road. The Pepper Market over at CSR. I'm not sure I'd want to see Disney completely chopped into pieces though with all parts going to outside sources. Disney can afford to offer nicer linens if they choose to. The Swan and Dolphin have those wonderful Heavenly Beds (Westin branded, I believe). I considered buying one, but ended up with a Macy bed - which is nice and plush too. Disney has upgraded a number of things lately - including bedding and bath products. I'm not sure the GF shold be a Ritz type experience.
Originally Posted By nbodyhome >> I'm not sure what kind of private parties would be had in a bunch of small, unfinished hotel rooms. >> I kinda meant the communal areas!!! << :-D
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << Disney can afford to offer nicer linens if they choose to. The Swan and Dolphin have those wonderful Heavenly Beds (Westin branded, I believe). >> I'm not sure it's a fair comparison between Disney and other standard hotel operators. The money you pay for your Disney hotel room isn't just paying for a place to stay and all the amenities there. That's part of the equation, of course, but the Disney resorts are also subsidizing the theme park operation and all the WDW transportation infrastructure. The operating costs for the theme parks aren't even close to being covered by revenue from admission tickets -- it's the food, merchandise, and resort revenues that make up the difference. If you subtract resort revenues, all the other theme park revenues only cover about 2/3 of the overall operating expenses. So, you need a lot of cash from resorts and time shares to make up that last 1/3 plus any profit margin. It's not a great business model, and I imagine it's not great being a Disney hotel manager trying to operate a world-class resort when you have a significant chunk of your financial resources being siphoned off to pay for things at Disney theme parks that are totally unrelated to hotel operations. Other hotel chains don't have to deal with that sort of thing.
Originally Posted By nbodyhome I understand that the hotels have to pay for some extras as well. I've been told that the resorts pay for their transportation (like the monorail to stop at the GF). But if someone is paying $500 per night for a hotel room, I would expect a nice bed and linens too. Beds are something that last a long time, so it's - probably under $1.00 per day on the life of the bed. Likely a lot less. Linens can be used over and over again, so it's the same - maybe pennies. For me, that is just standard.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy ^^ I don't disagree but I'm not sure it's accurate to say that just because the Westin has X beds, Disney Resort Y should have X beds, too.
Originally Posted By nbodyhome The Swan and Dolphin are both on prime Disney property, and I'm sure paying for that transportation too. I do think that the Disney hotel experience should at least be equal to any other hotelier on property. I'm not comparing them to the Ritz across town, or the Peabody. I would say the same about Disney restaurants. If the Earl of Sandwich and DisneyQuest can serve up good counter service meals, why can't Disney do the same more consistently in the parks? I think it's fair to compare on-property experiences.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << The Swan and Dolphin are both on prime Disney property, and I'm sure paying for that transportation too. >> Except it's not just transportation. You have four theme parks at WDW that don't bring in enough money in admissions to pay their way. Admissions only bring in about 1/3 of the expenses. The next 1/3 is from merchandise/food. The rest comes from resorts/hotels/time shares. The resorts are paying for the parks and other entertainment as well as any transportation infrastructure. I'm also not sure that the Swan/Dolphin example is a good comparison because those two hotels were built under a relatively favorable deal with Disney back in the 80s when Disney was essentially hemorraging cash because of the building of EPCOT and wasn't in a really good bargaining position to demand high fees from the Swan/Dolphin developers. I'm not sure how much of the original development agreement is still in place, but it was a sweetheart deal at the time. Disney didn't get the best financial terms when they struck that deal.
Originally Posted By nbodyhome I think the consensus is that Disney shouldn't have given up that land to the S/D, though I personally find the resorts lovely and classy. Either way - I think that the deluxes should have good beds and linens. And the resorts ARE being upgraded, even the values are. The Contemporary rooms are beautiful, the beds have been upgraded, I like the bed linens very much at that resort. Even the All Star Music has been very updated, and the CSR is supposed to get room upgrades this year. Disney stopped charging for the refrigerators, now they have spa-type products in the rooms including the values (just shampoo/lotion) instead of the junky Mickey stuff. I wish they'd upgrade the toilet paper. I don't really have a lot of complaints about the way Disney is running the hotels. They need more housekeeping, some people like their bedding triple-sheeted (I do think that is something a deluxe should have), I miss the mints on the pillows and all the deluxes should have the same toilet paper as the Grand, IMHO. But overall, I think Disney has been doing a fine job lately with the resorts. I don't want to see The Ritz take over the deluxe resorts, because the experience of the Ritz isn't the same as the GF or Polynesian. I'm not in here subbing for Spirit, listing things I don't like about Disney. I just tend to gravitate to what I do enjoy (Epcot, Fort Wilderness, walking almost anywhere on property) and stay away from what I don't like. I don't look for problems, I don't know who Phil Holmes is (and really don't care), - I'm a lifelong Disney fan, and tend to see the positives most of the time. I do think if someone is paying world-class prices, they should get a world-class experience, and Disney does a pretty good job with that.
Originally Posted By nbodyhome As far as the Pop - I'd like to see them eventually create more family suites. Not all families want a small hotel room, and not all have 2 adults, 2 kids.
Originally Posted By dshyates I don't give a mouses butt about Disney's operating expenses. This is the attitude of defending mediocrity simply because its Disney that some other web master was talking about. Its seems really strange to me to pay more for the WL than the Ritz because Disney wants to take a 25 man team on an a 6 week Everest Expedition for "research" to build a convincing themed roller coaster. I don't care that the Ritz is 8 miles away. I'll pay less for a better stay and Disney will still put pretty lights on the castle because they HAVE to. Truely thats Disney's problem not mine. Disney simply can't offer lower quality at higher prices than off-prop options. Like it or not, Disney DOES have to compete with these other options. And people are starting to realize that regardless of what they tell you it is NOT illegal to leave the property.
Originally Posted By nbodyhome I do think that this is why Disney is upgrading the resorts. Competition is always good, which is why I'm also glad that Uni got Harry Potter. It is very rare that I spend more than $100 per night on a hotel room no matter where I go - London, Paris, Mont St. Michel was a little more - like $120.00 per night, but that was "on property" with only dozens of other people. I've stayed at really nice, nice places for what Disney prices a moderate at. With AP rates, I do think that some resorts are a bargain (CSR, Pop). I can't find value in spending $300.00 per night for any room, no matter where. (maybe in like, the Ice Hotel.) Disney just started changing their prices with the days of the week, etc. I'd like to see if they start really lowering prices at other times. Like - Vegas. Sometimes the rooms are $400, sometimes $99. Right now, Disney is just high and higher. Gaylord Palms and the S/D also swing heavily on price (GP is a super-nice hotel as well). The AP rates for late Feb/early March this year are high at Disney, I just saw those yesterday.
Originally Posted By dshyates I am glad to hear thay are upgrading. But again too late for me since I already paid and stayed and left with a "this is really cheap crap for what I'm paying" impression. The matresses at the Poly were beyond horrible, with nasty overtones. The sheets and towels were so thin you could see through them. Totally unacceptable at over $300 a night. So I looked around a little and discovered the JW and the Ritz. I paid over $100 a night less for the Ritz, and I was really impressed. We will stay there again as opposed to the Poly or any other Disney Deluxe for that matter. Resting on laurals loses customers. I am not willing to take a $2000 chance when I KNOW that for several hundred less I can stay at the Ritz.
Originally Posted By nbodyhome When did you stay at the Polynesian? They upgraded the rooms, rugs, beds, etc. a couple of years ago. I've never had a problem with towels at Disney hotels (I'm not too picky on that, or really sheets - I do like a nice comforter). I prefer the beds and towels at the Pop over Shades of Green, which I probably wouldn't stay at again (some family of mine is military). I'm glad you like the Ritz! I do like at Disneyland that there are nice offsite places within walking distance, which isn't an option at WDW. I stayed at the Candy Cane Inn in July - much cheaper than Disney, good beds, free wi-fi, free parking, free breakfast. It's not the Ritz, but there is a lovely Marriott and the Hilton within a short walk. I'll be back at DL in March myself - I'd love the CCI, but will really have to Priceline it this time around.
Originally Posted By dshyates We stayed at the Poly about 4 years ago if not more. It was the last time I stayed on property. I have to admit, I'm really into resort hotels and spas. This grew out of my childhood love of the Disney Resorts. I am stunned that there isn't a spa at each of the Deluxes. Its so relaxing to wake up at WL and hop on a diesel city bus and ride across Disneytown to have a spa treatment then hop back on the bus for the trip back across Disneytown. Makes me feel so classy.
Originally Posted By nbodyhome Most of the deluxe resorts have spa treatments, and you can have someone come and give you a massage at your room. The Polynesian does not have a spa, but you can walk or get a monorail to the GF for a treatment (walking is 5 - 10 minutes away). I am not into a lot of pampering (just very occasionally), but the GF is supposed to have a nice spa. I don't think the Saratoga Springs spa/fitness center is as nice as when it was the DI. I used to be a member of the Disney Institute gym - just a local member, and loved going there and then getting a jacuzzi/steam room afterwards. I think I've only had 4 or so actual spa treatments in my life - 2 nails, well - not even at a spa. One facial, one massage. That is it! The rooms have been upgraded since you've been. Nice TV's, nice bedding, not sure on the towels. Probably no upgrade in TP either. Good toiletries, good carpet, nicer layout, etc. Not the Ritz, but I have a soft spot for the Polynesian, it is where I stayed every year growing up. Very romantic resort, IMHO. Great location, large rooms, I just love walking around th resort.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << I do think that this is why Disney is upgrading the resorts. Competition is always good, which is why I'm also glad that Uni got Harry Potter. >> Disney is upgrading resorts because cash flow is good right now, not because of competition. There were some rough times post 9/11 for Disney in the cash flow department, but the past 2 years have seen healthy profit margins reminiscent of 15 years ago. When Disney has good cash flow, they are generally pretty good at spending it in ways that improve their products. When cash flow deteriorates, you see a lot of belt tightening. Unlike Universal, Disney does not typically borrow money to pay for operating expenses and capital expenditures.
