Originally Posted By StillThePassHolder "Because we haven't removed all the obstacles to peace and prosperity for Iraqis yet." After three years, if we haven't done it, we're not going to do so. We've had time, plenty of it. I would suggest the last obstacle to be removed is rather easy. Us.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <After three years, if we haven't done it, we're not going to do so.> Simply untrue.
Originally Posted By StillThePassHolder "Simply untrue." This is a wishful conclusion with no basis in fact. Us realistic pessimists have the last three years to use as a basis for our opinions.
Originally Posted By imadisneygal <After three years, if we haven't done it, we're not going to do so.> Simply untrue. " You don't know that it's untrue any more than any of us know that it is true. It's called an opinion. Where else has throwing military force at a foreign country within their own borders served to change their ideology where government and religion are concerned? How can you seriously say that the statement above is categorically untrue?! Where has it worked in the past?! It's like you're sticking your fingers in your ears and saying, "LA LA LA...if we keep bombing them then one day they'll see our point of view!!!!" Not going to happen. And yes, that's just an opinion.
Originally Posted By mrichmondj Remember the declaration back in 2003 that major combat operations in Iraq were ended? And yet we reported on Friday that we had just completed our largest air assault in Iraq in 3 years. Sounds like we have a lot more combat operations left to accomplish. Wouldn't it be nice if we could just dress up in our fancy flight suit, pound our chest, declare the insurgents "defeated" and they would all magically disappear?
Originally Posted By StillThePassHolder "Wouldn't it be nice if we could just dress up in our fancy flight suit, pound our chest, declare the insurgents "defeated" and they would all magically disappear?" I seem to recall something very similar in San Diego a couple of years ago......
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <This is a wishful conclusion with no basis in fact.> Yours is a pessimistic conclusion with no basis in fact.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <You don't know that it's untrue any more than any of us know that it is true.> There is no law that says if we can't do something in three years, it can't be done. <Where else has throwing military force at a foreign country within their own borders served to change their ideology where government and religion are concerned?> Japan and Germany.
Originally Posted By StillThePassHolder "Yours is a pessimistic conclusion with no basis in fact. " What is this, I know you are but what am I? First the juvenile remark, and now this? I admitted I'm a pessimist. Plus, I've got three years of erratic U.S. behavior to back up my assertions. But you knew that before you posted the above.
Originally Posted By mrichmondj OK, so let's drop the bomb on Iraq and just get it over with. That seemed to work with Japan
Originally Posted By StillThePassHolder "Japan and Germany." In oh so many ways, you've GOT to be kidding.
Originally Posted By StillThePassHolder "There is no law that says if we can't do something in three years, it can't be done." Come on Doug, you're reaching with stuff like this. Strict adherence to the party line could lead you to the edge of the cliff.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <First the juvenile remark, and now this?> If you want to debate in platitudes, I'll respond in kind. <Plus, I've got three years of erratic U.S. behavior to back up my assertions.> I've got three years of steady progress to back up mine.
Originally Posted By mrichmondj Oh, and if we want to follow the Germany and Japan model, we still have about 397,000 more American soldiers to get killed along the path to victory.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <Come on Doug, you're reaching with stuff like this.> No, I'm not. <Strict adherence to the party line could lead you to the edge of the cliff.> I examine the evidence and draw conclusions. Iraq is not a lost cause, nor has it been a waste of American resources.
Originally Posted By StillThePassHolder "If you want to debate in platitudes, I'll respond in kind." Now you're really not making sense. If anything, I should be the one making that remark, but I won't, because it would be just as pointless as when you've done it here. Doug, you've got a history here of wanting to be perfect about everything. Fine for you. Thing is, there's plenty of room for opinions that differ from yours on this issue, opinions that are just as valid as yours. The sooner you realize that the better off you'll be on this one. I'll give you the last word, as you're dying to tell me I'm wrong.
Originally Posted By imadisneygal "There is no law that says if we can't do something in three years, it can't be done." This statement is ridiculous. Of course there's not a law. This statement is along the lines of "It's a free country I can do what I want!" There's not a "law" for lots of things. It doesn't make them wrong or right. Honestly.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <Now you're really not making sense.> Of course I am. You made a simplistic statement without presenting any evidence to back it up, so I responded with the same. <Doug, you've got a history here of wanting to be perfect about everything.> No, I don't. I try to be factually accurate, and when someone makes a statement that I don't believe is justified by the facts, then I point that out. <Thing is, there's plenty of room for opinions that differ from yours on this issue, opinions that are just as valid as yours.> But I'm the one who is being told my opinion is wrong, aren't I?
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <This statement is ridiculous. Of course there's not a law. This statement is along the lines of "It's a free country I can do what I want!" There's not a "law" for lots of things. It doesn't make them wrong or right. Honestly.> If it's okay for STPH to say, "If we haven't done it in three years, it can't be done", why is it not okay for me to say, "That's simply untrue"?
Originally Posted By StillThePassHolder "Of course I am. You made a simplistic statement without presenting any evidence to back it up, so I responded with the same." Baloney. You're really reaching today, seeing only what you want to see. The Beatles wrote a song about that.
