Originally Posted By BlueDevilSF >>They wouldn't even consider me a Christian.<< Oh, get off the cross. We need the wood.
Originally Posted By mele <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99DnWj7y4ZA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...nWj7y4ZA</a> (Not sure if anyone posted that link yet.) How anyone could categorize this as a "joke", no matter how sick of a joke, is incredible to me.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<What concerns me, is that at first glance, the slogan actually looks harmless, and of good intentions.>> Funny thing is, it could inspire someone who isn't familiar with that Psalm to pray in a positive way for the President. <<I think all reasonable people..Christian or not should be outraged at this.>> More than anything, it strikes me as pathetic, an "inside joke" amongst fundies.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<Rather than get their own house in order, they focus on those that have nothing in common with them.>> I doubt they'll listen to the Pope or the local Bishop. Some fundies are so triumphalistic that they even exclude other fundy groups from the fold as "not true Christians". I know someone who attends an Assemblies of God Church who couldn't get his kids into a Baptist elementary school because of their denominational ties.
Originally Posted By ecdc I get that a lot of people probably hadn't even heard of these bumper stickers. But when they do, the response is predictable - as we've seen here. "Oh it's awful sure, BUT.... followed by complaints about [insert group you don't like here]." That's not an unequivocal denunciation. It's insulting to atheists or Muslims or Mormons when people imply that these bumper stickers aren't as bad as those whole swaths of people. And that's what they do when they offer lip service to complain about the sticker, then go on to complain about these other groups. How 'bout manning up, stepping up and saying "This is wrong and as a Christian I want to say that this behavior is entirely unChristian, and does not represent me or my beliefs in any way, shape, or form. Not, "Oh great, now those nasty atheists are gonna come along and say mean things about us!"
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>How 'bout manning up, stepping up and saying "This is wrong and as a Christian I want to say that this behavior is entirely unChristian, and does not represent me or my beliefs in any way, shape, or form.<< Exactamundo.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <speak up!> Hi there. I have just met you, and I love you. Seriously, I agree that reasonable Christians need to speak up about crap like this. I'm pretty proud to say I'm just back from a trip down south where I saw this bumper sticker. At first I pretended not to know what the psalm said, and asked the woman who owned the car about it. She kind of winked at me, a middle-aged white guy, and said "Oh, it's just a little prayer we have for the so-called president. Our little wish for him. You should check your Bible and I bet you wish it too (wink wink)." I then told her I actually was aware of what it said and then asked her point blank if she was really wishing for the president to die, his kids to be fatherless and wandering beggars, and if someone who called themselves a Christian should really be wishing for that. She was very, very taken aback, and pretty much just wanted to leave. I probably should have let it go, but I asked her then if she thought Biden would be better. She said "Well, I don't like him either, but at least he's one of us," which told me about all I needed to know. I felt pretty good about confronting her - then instantly wondered if I'd have had the balls to say the same thing to a 6'3" redneck rather than a 5'3" redneckette. If I'm being honest, probably not. But at least I did a little something. By the way, I don't think most of these people seriously wish Obama harm. I think it's more a smug little "inside" joke they have with each other. When they see the bumper sticker they think "Good. There's another real American who doesn't like that socialist liberal Muslim." Unfortunately, there's a subset that is more malignant, and when they see the bumper stickers it's validation for their malignancy.
Originally Posted By mele <<By the way, I don't think most of these people seriously wish Obama harm.>> I really don't know anymore. Even if these people aren't actively hoping that something happens to Obama, I think they would derive some sort of smug sense of...not happiness...but peace with it. Like Obama somehow deserves whatever bad things happen to him. They do not care about this country over their hatred and fear of Obama.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>(wink wink)<< Ugh. Was her name Sarah? But seriously, it's great that you confronted her about it!
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<She was very, very taken aback, and pretty much just wanted to leave. I probably should have let it go, but I asked her then if she thought Biden would be better. She said "Well, I don't like him either, but at least he's one of us," which told me about all I needed to know.>> BINGO! There it is, folks. Of course these bumper stickers are being displayed by individuals who don't want Obama in the WH. But as our fellow LPer pointed out to her, Biden is also a Democrat and would succeed Obama. But that isn't a problem, because, you know, "he's one of us." Go ahead, Republicans, and tell me again that this vitriol against Obama IS NOT ABOUT RACE. IT. IS. ALL. ABOUT. RACE.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>She said "Well, I don't like him either, but at least he's one of us," which told me about all I needed to know.<< Holy crap! Seriously, how can Republicans feel good looking at that map and seeing all that red concentrated in the south? Well done on stepping up!
Originally Posted By DAR <<Too many decent Christians would rather go after reasonable atheists (as DAR's comment shows) than go after extremist Christians>> You want go after the extremists I'm right there with you. I have a lot of issues with organized religion. But that doesn't affect mine and others belief in God. And this thread early was skirting dangerously close to not condemning organized religion but also people's belief in God.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 What galls me so much is that the smugness is increased because they think this horrible little "inside joke" is "between Christians" and therefore somehow justified. That THEY'RE the good people, or the "true Christians" holding out against something bad. It's infuriating.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<And this thread early was skirting dangerously close to not condemning organized religion but also people's belief in God.>> To clarify any position of mine that might be misconstrued... I am not condemning people's belief in a higher power. I am myself an agnostic and do not begrudge anyone's beliefs per se. What I have an EXTREME problem with, however, are individuals who take their beliefs and galvanize them into such rigid constructs, that no other differing belief is acceptable and must be rejected at all levels. That is fundamentalist religion at it worst. I am against fundamentalist religious beliefs. If someone is espousing a belief in God which is fundamentalist at its core, then I could see someone falsely concluding that I am against that person's belief in God when I'm only against the RIGIDITY of that belief. Claiming that you believe in God is one thing. But claiming that your belief is true and everyone else's belief is false, that your God is the one true God while everyone else's God(s) are false idols... that I have a HUGE problem with, especially those who use this rhetoric to bash Muslims and their belief in Islam, proclaiming it to be a religion of war and destruction. If that's the twisted and hateful foundation their particular belief in God is rooted in, then yes, I am condemning their particular belief in God. But I'm not against anyone's belief in God, generally speaking.
Originally Posted By DAR <<Claiming that you believe in God is one thing. But claiming that your belief is true and everyone else's belief is false>> But here's the thing never once in the many let's bash religion threads have I or others mocked those who don't believe in God. And I'll ask is if someone doesn't believe to return the same courtesy to those of us who do.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Then you should take it up with someone who actually mocks your belief. As far as I can see, that's not skinnerbox.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <>She said "Well, I don't like him either, but at least he's one of us," > Do you think she mean White or Christian? It could be the "muslim" angle.
