Originally Posted By jonvn "It's better to stay and fight for what you believe in." Unless they were dragged here unwillingly, and many were, your ancestors did exactly what you said is wrong, in that they left where they were and came here for a better opportunity. If they had the same attitude of "stay and fight" you'd not be living here now.
Originally Posted By jonvn Here's an interesting article today about some of this stuff. Seems that the rich are getting richer, the poor, poorer, and the gap is growing ever wider. The idea of this country being the land of opportunity is really a lie. <a href="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/08/23/MND5RNBH3.DTL" target="_blank">http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/ article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/08/23/MND5RNBH3.DTL</a>
Originally Posted By DVC_dad If you would make an attempt to look past all of your bitterness you might find that most of your clouds have silver linings. But jonvn, it's nothing but negative in your WE posts. What other than being witty and clever in an effort to offend others makes you happy?
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<In regards to millions coming here illegally: You don't have to be the very best place to live for that. Just better than where they are from, and easy to get into.>> True, but its not just impoverished 3rd worlders who are trtying to get in.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<The Candians seem to have better civil liberties.>> I'm no sure about that one. I have heard some horror stories from Canade regarding free speech issues.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper You know why America is the GREATEST? We have OJ Simpson AND Nicole Simpson and The Simpsons. We have Michael Vick AND Michael J. Fox and the FOX News channel. We have baseball and dodgeball. We have Barry Bonds, Barry White, Barry Gibb and Halle Berry. We have George Bush, Curious George, and Billy Bush. We have Disneyland, Dollywood, and Kennywood. We have whites who want to be black, blacks who want to be white, kids growing up to fast, adults not growing up fast enough. We have cell phones, internet, hot spots, rocket ships, IMs, PCs, and there are times I still can't work my zipper. THAT is why we are the greatest.
Originally Posted By jonvn "But jonvn, it's nothing but negative in your WE posts. What other than being witty and clever in an effort to offend others makes you happy?" So did you wake up one morning and decide to make me your personal project? I'm not always negative, anyway. Nor always positive. People have said both about me. I don't make efforts to offend anyone. I don't get offended by much. If I would, I'd be pretty offended by many of the things you seem to hold dear, as I find them to be rather distasteful and wrong. But i'm not going to make personal comments about your choices in life. Nor get offended by what you think you are doing right. Nor do I intend on getting offended by your increasingly strident comments about me. You do need to mellow out, though. You're angry at some guy online. You don't like what I say. Oh well. Not everyone in the world is going to think like you do. I'm sure you have surrounded yourself in real life with people who actually do think, speak, and act like you. That is what most people seem to do. But I'm not one of them, and that's how it goes when a group of people get thrown together who otherwise have little in common. What you seem to think is negative and offensive, I find to be fun and interesting and worth discussing. It is your right to disagree. I have nothing against you personally, but you really need to think about what point you are trying to make in being rude. Is it to annoy or upset me? Is it to hurt my feelings? Are you trying to get me to change my ways? What's your goal? Or is it you are simply lashing out in anger and frustration? It doesn't matter. What I will say, though, is that your comments don't do you any service. They don't bother me, but they do you no good in any respect whatsoever, aside from feeling good for the moment you type them in, I suppose.
Originally Posted By jonvn "You know why America is the GREATEST?" You know why it's the greatest? Because it's managed to fool the people who live there that it's the greatest.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad Well said. I guess I have misinterpreted all of you posts. This last post however seems honest, direct, and sincere. I knew you could do it. As for you thinking I have a problem with you specifically, I don't, at least not anymore; partially because most of what you said is true. Thanks for the objective, open, and honest post. If you are sincere in all that you said, then I apologize for wrongfully thinking you were making much of what you say on LP, personal. Thanks for the help. Your words, although difficult to swollow, are helpful to me. I don't agree with you posted, but probably most of it. In either case, thanks for your honesty.
Originally Posted By jonvn It's ok. I make people angry a lot of times because I'm blunt, and my sense of humor is on the sarcastic side. Unless I'm being sarcastic, which is often, and perhaps hard to see online, I only say precisely what I feel while writing. It's too hard to do otherwise, and since I manage to offend somebody no matter what, why bother?
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>Agree w post # 19. If you hate the US so much, you're free to leave. I believe the US is very much the best place to work, play, and raise a family. <<< Um DVC DAD - I did. And I don't agree with your view which is why I live in the UK now.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad Actually coming from you davewasbaloo, that is saying a GREAT DEAL, as I know that you have and continue to travel the world over, speaking publicly, and doing all the other things you do. This sure makes me re-think that post.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad ok, lesson learned. I have quite a few things to go think about from this thread.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad ^ ^ ^ And no, it's not "poor pitiful me, everyone hates me..." It's with an attitude of, "Wow, I need to re-examine quite a few things about myself, and maybe grow up a little as well."
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo America does indeed have greatness. A greatness of spirit. A love and a pride for culture. A willingness to help those in need (very often). A richness of resource, both natural and intellectual. A can do spirit. A country that is built on the very best ideals of liberty and justice for all. But sadly, especially that last point, is eroding. America is not alone. The bit that get's to me is the internal jingoism that does not appreciate that other countries do it well too. And together, we could all do so much more. America has forgotten this. Much of the greatness of America has come from taking the best of what the world offers, and making it better. Turning ideals into reality. Instead we off shore it. We Walmart it. We invade it. We contain it. And we erode what makes America great. America can be the greatest country in the world. It has the best chance. But to do that, America does not politicians. America needs leaders. I've not seen one for a while in government (thank god though with the likes of Jobs, Gates and many more, at least there is still a great leadership spirit).
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Oh, and for the record, I do not hate America. Not at all. I love it. But sadly, just like Kevin Yee writes about Disney parks - especially WDW declining by degrees - I too believe that so is the US. And just like Disneyland has shown it can rise from the fire like a phoenix, so too can my home country, the country I truly love.
Originally Posted By mele I didn't mean to imply that everyone who leaves America hates it and is a bad American. People live in other countries for a variety of reasons.
