Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I wonder ;-) In all seriousness, the dutch are great. They have a real open mind on everything - very liberal. At Disneyland Paris, the dutch tend to be the nicest people, and on average, they speak about 4 languages fluently. They are fairly affluent and very well educated. The Netherlands are wonderful - except poor climate and a dull topography (I like mountains, Holland is very flat).
Originally Posted By jonvn It's a nice place, free society. Lots of jobs for english speakers. Good history of decent people. Denmark would also be good.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad I have a neighbor that moved here from South Africa about 5 years ago. They have many relatives that left S Africa recently, most moved to the US, but many to the UK, and one family moved to Dubai.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Denmark is also an awesome country, but boy is it freezing!!!! And although I love Tivoli and Legoland, I do prefer Disneyland.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Dubai is pretty awesome. Talk about It's a Small World - 80% of their population are immigrants. Also, there is a high level of tolerance. They lead the Middle East by example, without a doubt. It shows me a society can actually thrive without democracy (though I prefer a democratic society).
Originally Posted By jonvn I would not move to France, Germany or Eastern European countries. Probably not Greece, Spain or Italy, chiefly due to the weather. Ireland might be ok, if I could stand listening to a Lucky Charms commercial all the time.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad One interesting fact, none of them got in a big hurry to become US citizens. They eventually did. I assume it was out of necessity, something about doing it before the kids turned 18.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo South Africa sadly is quite a scary place. There is a lot of violent crime and rapes are very high. Sadly this is largely driven out by the economic imbalance caused by Apartheid policies and also enforcing a Westfalia State System on tribal societies have caused nothing but problems throughout Africa. The Europeans - especially the British, French, Dutch and Portugeuse imposed Western Ideals on a system through colonisation. Similar to America's Cold War and Post Cold War doctrines. Sadly that is why Iraq has become such a quagmire, and now the US is damned if we do, and damned if we don't.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Ya, it's like I hve not yet gone for duel citizenship, but I really should. I am an American, and I always will be. But my wife and children are British. God knows it would make my life easier to take British (Duel) nationality, especially when I travel, but so far I cannot bring myself to do it.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad Our neighbors are facinating to listen to, concerning South Africa, why they left, what's going on there today. It is shocking to listen to their stories, opinions, and experiences, which I might add are drastically different than all I have ever heard on this side of the Atlantic. I can see a big picture view of "both sides" burI think the truth lies somewhere between the two.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper Here is another example of why I'll take the US any day: Go to CNN.com today and read the story about Youssif, the 5 year old Iraqi boy who was grabbed by masked men, doused with gasoline and then set on fire leaving him with severe burns that have all but destroyed his face. The story was originally posted on CNN.com yesterday and the response has overwhelmed the company. By the end of the day, a non-profit grouop out of Sherman Oaks, California called The Children's Burn Unit was making arrangements to have Youssif and his family flown to the US to receive specalized treatment. They are setting up donations centers as we speak. CNN reports it was the largest response to a non-breaking news story item in the 15 year history of the website. That is the spirit of America. You can complain all you want about health care or politics or religious undertones but I rarely, if ever, see examples of that kind of spirit on the world stage. We aren't the greatest country because we think we are. We are the greatest country because a majority of the rest of the world EXPECTS us to be the greatest. They can complain about us all they want but, when they need help, who are they calling? Are they calling Canada? Australia? Italy? Germany? England? (Funny story about them. I asked several Italians why their country doesn't have a significant military. Each and every one of them responded..."because we have the US.") We are the greatest country on Earth because we have had great leaders AND because, as a people, we have had great perserverance in spite of bad leaders.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <But to do that, America does not politicians. America needs leaders< sadly our best and brightest in this country are not going into politics and when they do it is one term and they leave due to the frustration with the overall system and inability to get anything done on their own -- it is a major reason we have had somne of the 'leaders' we have had lately
Originally Posted By ecdc Again, wahoo, I don't necessarily disagree about America's spirit. But you read one story and assumed that only the U.S. responded. It's entirely possible, even probable, that other nations respond similarly to stories that are widely reported in their country, just as we responded to this one. Americans don't have a monopoly on decency or on what you label "spirit." You can keep saying we're the greatest all you want, and you're welcome to think that way. But it's a subjective claim that is easily debatable.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad Certainly there was a time when we were the greatest? And if we no longer are, then surly there isn't one greatest, but a few greats.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad But once you try to list these great countries, what criteria do you use? Its all a matter of how you define greatness.
Originally Posted By jonvn In the thread about the kid, I posted the article about him being helped, and also a link if you want to donate money for him.
Originally Posted By ecdc That's exactly my point. I return to my analogy of a small town in the midwest vs. New York. Both could tell ancdotal stories about "spirit" and charity; New York can claim to have theatre, culture, wealth, cuisine, etc. The small town might retort that New York is dirty, has lots of crime, is impersonal, and an ugly facade of concrete, steel, and glass. New Yorkers might say the small town is uncultured, has nothing to do, is boring, etc. It's a perspective. In further response to wahoo's post, I think one story that, because of how it was written it manages to tug at heart strings, is hardly evidence that America's the greatest. 'd certainly point to the response Americans still have to the poorest among us as evidence that we're not that great at all. We tend to have contempt for our own poor. The reality is Americans are human beings, no better or worse than most others.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Ireland might be ok, if I could stand listening to a Lucky Charms commercial all the time.< and you wouldn't move to germany / spain because of the weather ? -- you likely have not spent much time in Ireland -- I love the country - more than half my wife's family is there ( and in UK ) - but weather wise - yuck !!!
