Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "Why then, wouldn't it be at home in Fantasyland?" Because the story line was pure science fiction, not fantasy in the sense that Peter Pan, Snow White, etc, are. Not only that, the setting of the attraction (a volcanic tropical lagoon) would have been far better suited for Adventureland than the princess and fairy world beyond Cinderella's Castle. "Second, yes it was hokey, but it was also pretty unique for most of the population." True, but just because something is unique doesn't make it superbly entertaining. Another attraction that was similar for me in that is suffered from the same kind of fake cheesiness was Mission to Mars. Great concept, but hopelessly lame.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo As a child, I loved Mission to Mars, Adventure thru Inner Space and the subs. I always felt Peter Pan, Alice etc. were overrated. Different strokes.Jungle Cruise is hokey, but it is a must ride.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>Most of the facades are fine, really, it just needs more greenery and less concrete. It's missing texture.<<< EE, once you get to DL or DLP where the frontage is on the scale of World Showcase Pavilions, you would not say that.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "As a child, I loved Mission to Mars, Adventure thru Inner Space and the subs." As a child I did too, but as I got older, and the technology behind those attractions became dated, I lost interest in them. Riding the Subs today at DL is almost painful for me, even with the new underwater animation gimmick. "Jungle Cruise is hokey, but it is a must ride." It is. It's a must ride because it's entertaining. Mission to Mars was never as engaging at The Jungle Cruise. "EE, once you get to DL or DLP where the frontage is on the scale of World Showcase Pavilions, you would not say that." I agree. I'm a big fan of DLP, and the park has an amazing Fantasyland. However, I will say that some of the MK's Fantasyland exteriors are quite nice. The Village Haus restaurant is really well done, for example. I think the FL at TDL is by far the worst of them all when it comes to overall ambiance and design.
Originally Posted By Lee hisownself >>And that's exactly what the problem is, Lee! We all know that this is just the paltry minimum for what's needed in MK! Of course, this WILL improve cap, which is a huge problem, but it can also be a draw, while doing it. Kill two birds with one E Ticket.<< But that's the thing...MK doesn't NEED a big E to boost attendance. It has all the guests it needs now. FLE, and it's added capacity is more beneficial. Sure, the fan in me wants an E...but logically I know it isn't what's needed. Save the E ticket budget and put it where it's really needed...AK or maybe DHS.
Originally Posted By danyoung > Mission to Mars was never as engaging at The Jungle Cruise.< Again, different strokes. I always loved Mission to Mars. It was fun to suspend disbelief and just go with the fantasy. It was one of my favorite right up to its closure.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper I just read through the 180 pages of this thread, and the only thing I'm sad I missed was the opportunity to bash on Expedition Everest. *Walks out of thread again*
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "It was fun to suspend disbelief and just go with the fantasy." I first rode the attraction at WDW in 1975 as a kid and loved it. As the attraction aged I thought that M2M took itself too seriously. Maybe if the simulation had been more convincing, but by the time it closed it just came across as just dull to me. "It was one of my favorite right up to its closure." At Disneyland M2M was almost within sight distance of Star Tours, a far superior simulated trip through space with a similar "scheduled space flight" premise, and it was almost embarrassing to see the difference in popularity between the two attractions before they finally closed M2M. I imagine it might have been a little less obvious in Florida where the two attractions were never neighbors.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<I first rode the attraction at WDW in 1975 as a kid and loved it. As the attraction aged I thought that M2M took itself too seriously. Maybe if the simulation had been more convincing, but by the time it closed it just came across as just dull to me. >> I have to agree. Never struck me as anything worthwhile. I went on it as a kid, and was bored to death. Now, Alien Encounter was something special.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>EE, once you get to DL or DLP where the frontage is on the scale of World Showcase Pavilions, you would not say that.<<< Ah, but that's assuming that I don't want that. I'm talking about things like Village Haus, and the buildings next to SWSA. Those are fine, and on the level of WS. It's the tents that need to be scaled back and given texture, not the main buildings.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>But that's the thing...MK doesn't NEED a big E to boost attendance. It has all the guests it needs now. FLE, and it's added capacity is more beneficial. Sure, the fan in me wants an E...but logically I know it isn't what's needed.<<< ....Really? We haven't had a E in MK since 1992. A draw, a headliner, a icon is needed in MK. I can't compromise on that. (Sounds too political) I can't see how anything less is anything but background/filler attractions.
Originally Posted By Lee hisownself >>We haven't had a E in MK since 1992. A draw, a headliner, a icon is needed in MK.<< Really? MK is running short on headliners and icons? I think not. MK doesn't NEED that, but as fans we all WANT that. MK is rolling in crowds and profit, and it's only real need is being addressed. AK....that's a park that NEEDS a big headliner E. For attendance, to relieve pressure on Everest, to make it a full-day park... So, if there is a couple hundred mil laying around for an E...I say put it here it is really needed. That'd not MK.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<Save the E ticket budget and put it where it's really needed...AK or maybe DHS.>> Your right of course! But, right now there are no plans to put an E ticket in any WDW park, period! Honestly I think Disney is spending the E ticket budget on RFID chips on the refillable mugs so now "unlimited refills" means only four refills an hour. Disney just doing their thing to save the planet's water supply and enhance their revenue stream at the same time.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost <<<Disney just doing their thing to save the planet's water supply and enhance their revenue stream at the same time.>>> OK, so now it becomes clear. Enhance the revenue stream enabling them to build some "E" rides all the while reinforcing their Green position. Of course, it all makes perfect sense now! Why was everyone so worried?
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<OK, so now it becomes clear. Enhance the revenue stream enabling them to build some "E" rides all the while reinforcing their Green position. Of course, it all makes perfect sense now! Why was everyone so worried?>> Actually, no. My arguement is that money that would have gone ( and should have gone ) for E-ticket rides was spent on research involving RFID chips in mugs.
Originally Posted By Lee hisownself >>Actually, no. My arguement is that money that would have gone ( and should have gone ) for E-ticket rides was spent on research involving RFID chips in mugs.>> Truth.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>^^^That's an effective use of 1.5 billion if you ask me! /sarcasm<< It is gross corporate incompetence. I can't imagine how they could justify the ROI to the board on this price tag. Just as how they couldn't justify the absurd costs of Mendenhall's past marketing attempts while at the same time they were issuing historic discounts over the last 7 years. ...And I agree Hokie, I would've loved to jump in with you to discuss Everest. -- While some people have rightfully pointed out that SWSA is long in the tooth and won't be directly missed, no one said otherwise. I said, others said, that it shouldn't be a M&G. It should be a new modern dark ride. I take great issue with this. That has been muddled and confused with my other issue of one real show scene on the new attraction. As a replacement to the dark ride in attraction offering evolution of the MK, one show scene is hardly a step forward. Especially considering more of the attraction was planned to take place indoors in an earlier design. Lastly, to back up SJHYMs point a 100 posts ago. It is a poor choice. Everyone can be happy to see Fantasyland get a facelift and get some well-needed capacity back. I don't think anyone is still pining for Bald Mountain (Although that would have been a good choice, it would have saved Toad too). No, between the back and forth between SJYHM and Goofy, a point was missed. There was discussion that this attraction doesn't speak to adults and older kids, just as Mission Space did not speak to families. Well there is issue #3 (issue #1 being the M&G at SWSA, issue #2 being millions spent on a new Snow White attraction with one show scene) Issue #3 is in the good'ole days Disney would design and build attractions that were universally appreciated by the entire family, by the entire guest demo. It wasn't this one for group A, and this one for group B, and whala, we have a "menu" for the land. In my eyes, it is much easier and c$eaper to compartmentalize guest segments and pigeon hole attraction offerings. 20K, like it or hate it, was something families rode together. Mr. Toad and SWSA the same. While TLM has its weaknesses the one achievement is that it is a family attraction. The Circus drivel won't have it, the old M&Gs planned didn't have it, and I don't believe this mine train is Disney best attempt at achieving it. It screams easy way out version 2. Now I do agree with Lee that it will be immensely popular, crowded, due to capacity and the tight quarters. And it will look real pretty, no doubt. It will be substantively shallow however, and will be another reminder of another missed opportunity for something more refined and universally appealing.
Originally Posted By danyoung >Issue #3 is in the good'ole days Disney would design and build attractions that were universally appreciated by the entire family, by the entire guest demo.< This hasn't been true since 1959 when Walt built the Matterhorn, and the wee ones couldn't ride. Or if you wanna be picky, you could say that DL was never that way, as rides like the Carousel were obviously for the wee ones and not for the older kids or adults.
Originally Posted By HMButler79 ""Issue #3 is in the good'ole days Disney would design and build attractions that were universally appreciated by the entire family, by the entire guest demo. It wasn't this one for group A, and this one for group B, and whala, we have a "menu" for the land. In my eyes, it is much easier and c$eaper to compartmentalize guest segments and pigeon hole attraction offerings."" This pretty much said it ALL. Can you IMAGINE New FL '83 being planned like this? This is why NEW FL'12 is doomed.
