Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<Is it just me or are we all losing sight of the fact that this is in Fantasyland.>> Which is why I said a thrill ride is needed in Adventureland or Tomorrowland... And no where did I put down the mine ride. It'll be a nice ride. But it doesn't change the fact that the MK desperately needs a new big ticket thrill ride.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost Sorry Hokie but to incorporate that thought in a conversation about a specific ride made it sound like you thought it should be a lot more thrilling then I think it needs to be. A thousand pardons! I'm not sure that MK needs more "E" ticket rides. Those should be in Epcot, DHS or AK, in my opinion. It has Space Mtn., Splash Mtn. and Big Thunder already, why does it need more for the audience it is trying to pull in. There is something for everyone in WDW...not all the parks have to be six flags. Besides "E" ticket rides are really judged on popularity not on the amount of adrenaline produced.
Originally Posted By Lee hisownself >>I'm sorry, Lee, but that's exactly what they want. Lowered expectations and acceptance. Goodness knows that I'm not giving into them.<< Let me rephrase, since I think we agree. We WANT and EXPECT the best from Disney. We just don't EXPECT that they will deliver it.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<There is something for everyone in WDW...not all the parks have to be six flags.>> And this is the misrepresentation of thrill rides I see in the Disney fan community. Thrill doesn't have to mean 75 mph and 6 loops. But MK needs an Indiana Jones-esque ride of it's own. Something big and exciting that will get the older kids excited just as much as the younger kids.
Originally Posted By HMButler79 ""The mine ride is not a dark ride, never meant to be. It's a fun little coaster with a couple show scenes. Nothing wrong with that."" Obviously you need a crash course in what the Fantasyland attractions are supposed to represent.
Originally Posted By sjhym333 I don't think it is a downgrade. It is probably a nice little family style coaster with a cool dark scene. It is what was announced. This would all be great if the MK had been constantly upgraded and a new addition to the park had not been so long in the making. I think people are disappointed that the first new set of attractions for the MK are a mixed bag.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA The new mine ride looks 'fine' to me. And the old Snow White ride is/was 'fine' also. The question on my mind: Why replace 'fine' with another 'fine' -- with the same theme (Snow White)?
Originally Posted By Lee hisownself >>Obviously you need a crash course in what the Fantasyland attractions are supposed to represent. << Far as I know there is no written rules about such things. I assumed FL attractions could be of any sort, from dark rides, to boat rides, to teacups, to mine trains. Feel free to enlighten me...
Originally Posted By CDF1 The new mine ride seems to be derivation of the Crush coaster from Paris. No reason why you couldn't have something a little different to spice up Fantasyland. Too bad they didn't want to bring back Toad as a coaster as that would be a bit of an homage to Walt himself and it would allow them to keep the Snow White dark ride. On the question of another E ride for MK, do you spend big money on the park that is the top attended park already every year or do you invest in an attraction that boosts demand for one of the other WDW parks that is in the top 5? If it were my money, I'd try to boost DAK or DHS up some more. Bring the JTTCOTE volcano to DAK or replace Indy stunt show with some kind of indoor "Temple of Doom" coaster as opposed to worrying about something big at MK - MK already has enough E attractions with BTMRR, Spl Mt, Space Mt, HM, POTC and IASW and with new Fantasyland they'll have more reason for families with smaller kids to be there.
Originally Posted By markonefive From what I saw in the video, this is a coaster along the lines of BTMR, especially if you see the sharp curve at near the end with high tilt. I wonder if the show scenes are maybe near the start or end? Or maybe it's meant to be like Splash? Great scenes, but only one major thrill with the drop at the end? I like the forest background, the mix of in and out with views of the park. Could be a great addition.
Originally Posted By leobloom >> Why must everything be a heart stopping experience to be a good attraction. Does it need to be designed to give a grownup a heart attack to be an "E" ride. (a phrase that really has no meaning to the vast majority of WDW guests) Maybe a generation and a half ago, but not now. The first time I went to WDW was in 1983. I had never heard of an E ride because by then they had stopped that ticketing procedure. << That's just semantics. Replace "E-ticket" with "ride of the highest caliber." The issue isn't about ticket books. It's about the quality of the new offerings.
Originally Posted By danyoung OK, so I've seen the video in question, and it looks like there's some promise there. But there's not really enough detail to be able to tell just how this thing is going to be fleshed out. I'm happy to wait and see. That said, there's something that I've been seeing for a long time, and it really bothers me about HMButler. He will see a small blurb, or a piece of artwork, or in this case a very incomplete 3D animation with block figures instead of fully realized animations, and he will make a snap judgement that it's the latest horrible thing to come to a Disney park. Now I don't have any trouble with someone not liking something in a Disney park. But I have a really BIG problem with the fear mongering, panic inducing JUMP-THE-SHARK blather that takes the place of real information and real discussion. At this stage NO ONE outside of the Imagineers knows what this attraction is going to look like when finished. And when it is finished, then we can all line up for or against. But this constant jumping the gun and screaming defeat at this early stage is just silly at best, and harmful at worst. HMB, I don't know you, but I will defend your right to have an informed opinion. But it seems as if you just sit and wait for the smallest scrap of info from Disney and then work your hardest to paint it in the worst light possible. And it gets really really old.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<The constant putting down of something because it doesn't fit with some personal agenda or taste is really getting old. Judging by the crowds that have been reported at WDW this year...I'd say that it is a long way away from failure.>> The constant putting down of folks' opinions because you don't like their so-called personal agendas has gotten beyond old. It's ridiculous passive aggressive drivel by people incapable of either discussing/debating things in an adult fashion or a complete and total lack of the ability to engage in self control and ignore a thread if they can't do the above. Personally, I think this will be a nice little ride. What I've said since I first heard about it years ago. But it's also no more than that, and some of us (those who aren't involved in Social Media and walking around D23 with a credential around their necks to start) firmly understand Disney's whole goal of diminishing expectations (sounds like they've done a bangup job of Walmarting the Expo in just two tries!!!) I couldn't care less how many people go to WDW, just like I'm not particularly interested in the number of shoppers Walmart entertains or how many diners chose BK or Taco Bell for their cuisine. Popularity does NOT equal quality. And for the umpteenth time, MK has not added a MAJOR attraction since Splash Mountain in 1992. They do NOT have one planned for anytime in the next five years, apparently. I've been to TDR ... and DLP ... and even HKDL ... oh, and how could I forget UNI/IOA. To quote Judge Judy (and I love my judges) don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining or you're a pampered drunk teen skier who is an Olympic hopeful and you thought I was just a little girl. ~GFC~
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I also don't think MK needs an E Ticket right now. It needs attractions, but not an E. >> <<Completely and utterly disagree. MK is in desperate need to a new thrill E-ticket in Adventureland or Tomorrowland. It's current thrill offerings are at the least 20 years old. >> Absolutely, it does. The alleged flagship (it never will be, no matter how TWDC spins it ... DL is!) and #1 theme park in the world and it has become everything it was never supposed to be: old, tired, museum-like, neglected, in a state of becoming passe ... I am not a magical fanboi who believes parks must get $200 (wait, this is WDI ... I meant $400 million) E-Tix every year or two. But 19 years and counting?!??! And alleged fans justify it??!?! Seriously. Disney really thought that for WDW's 40th anniversary year all they needed to do was update Star Tours a dozen years too late (in its least popular park to begin with) and sell loads of retro merchandise and invite even more mommy and papi bloggers to WDW and then they could coast. How's that working out? What's that you say? Free dining now extended through next spring ... and as late as FALL of 2012 for UK residents? Really? Now don't that beat all ... ~GFC~
Originally Posted By sjhym333 I agree. Disney's mindset on the MK should be...the MK is #1 so lets invest in it and keep it there. Instead their mindset is...we are #1 and no one can beat us so lets not add anything. I might even be a tad forgiving if it seemed that the mindset of Disney continued to be that all WDW is one destination and one of the parks was getting a new or redone attraction on a regular basis, but that isn't even happening. It really is a shame. Someone needs to wake up at Disney. History has shown time and time again that the biggest, most popular, successful companies have disappeared or become a shell of itself.
Originally Posted By dennis-in-ct I think people do see WDW's parks as all part of one ticket price/destination so "the thrills" are there .... you just go to park that has the trill you are looking for. I generally agree with sjhym333 and Spirit. Spirit - you have such a talent for having the perfect balance of snarkiness and being on point. The last time I was truly jazzed-up with MK was over the last major addition in that park - as you pointed out - 19 years ago with Splash Mt. That same feeling I had about Splash is how I feel today about this Fantasyland expansion. (audible *gasp*). The amount of new mood and beauty being created for MK has me really excited. Also having visited DLP (the most beautiful MK of them all) makes me thrilled to know how great an impact a project like this will have on WDW's vibe and feel. I believe this atmosphere enhancement is as E-Ticket. My dream wish would be for a new large e-ticket to crop up *behind* this new Fantasyland Expansion in the wooded area we can see on the aerial shots. I almost wonder is a real TOON TOWN would crop up there but wish for something much newer and unique. I love the Snow White train addition. I always felt gipped that WDW never had a Casey Jr. Well .... not only are we getting a very PLUSSED Casey Jr, we are also getting something very unique to the US parks. LOVE IT ) This new project truly has be excited. P.S. .... And please bring the mirror parade float to a Monster Truck Rally so it can be sacrificed.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost >>>The constant putting down of folks' opinions because you don't like their so-called personal agendas has gotten beyond old. It's ridiculous passive aggressive drivel by people incapable of either discussing/debating things in an adult fashion or a complete and total lack of the ability to engage in self control and ignore a thread if they can't do the above.<<< Opinions of what? There is nothing to have an opinion about. It is still on paper, it hasn't happened yet. It does not exist and yet an opinion is offered based on something that doesn't exist. Those that disagree are, according to you, not able to have an adult discussion. Why, because we disagree with the glass always being half empty. That's the part that is getting old. Nothing is good enough, nothing ever will be good enough for them (you). I don't mind discussion, stating the pros and cons of reality. Not...well I don't think I like that, Disney failed again. That's not a discussion it is a blanket condemnation of anything that one doesn't agree with. If that disagreement were to be based on fact, then I can understand. This is not! In reality it is that attitude that screams that not only am I accepting lesser quality...I am expecting it and I will point it out before it actually is a reality. And it's the rest of us that have the "attitude" problem. Sorry, but I am not accepting that WDW is in decline. Money is being spent, not enough apparently to make everyone happy, but it is not being ignored and if I want to express myself and my opinion on that by disagreeing with the band of Naggingly Negative Nellie's then you my friend will have to get the self control necessary to avoid the posts.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>High expectations are fine, just not if they don't have sound resoning. There is no reason to expect or demand anything more than what we are getting with the Mine Ride. I've been trying not to single you out, but you immediately named this attraction SWSA II becuase you expected this to tell the same or similar story to SWSA. Never promised, and really not needed. (Nor would it make much sense.) There's a place for ride with no narrative or much storytelling. Fantasyland has quite a few storytelling attractions and could use an attraction that just puts you in a setting<<<< Once again... READ MY POSTS. Please. I've said all of this... LOL No reason to expect the best out of Disney? Yeah, seeing that they've fallen so far, but I still think they can do some good. I named it SWSA II because SWSA I is (unfortunately) leaving. I want to make that fact quite plain. No, it's not supposed to tell a narrative story. BUT THERE SHOULD BE SOMETHING BACK THERE THAT DOES TELL A STORY, AND I THINK THAT SHOULD BE AN E TICKET. *whew* Something is needed back there with heavy content. With large thematics. With "narrative" or not. SWSA II looks a bit too light on that. That's the only problem I have with it. New Fantasyland needs BULK, and SWSA II isn't it.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>Is it just me or are we all losing sight of the fact that this is in Fantasyland. This is an area primarily designed for children. Children of all sizes but not necessarily for tweens, teens or adults. It is designed for kids. These are thrill rides for them. << That's an excuse. Look at IASW... Huge E Ticket, and still geared toward kids. Bulk.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>> We WANT and EXPECT the best from Disney. We just don't EXPECT that they will deliver it<<< Very true. But I DO expect that they deliver, and they never do. ...Curse of the Fanboi, I guess... LOL
