Originally Posted By utahjosh <So which is it, Josh? Exactly which "traditional family" model does the US need to restrict its citizens to in order to save society?> One mom, one dad, kids. That's the strength of our society.
Originally Posted By Mr X So then, you reject polygamy outright then? You reject it completely as lacking in strength for our society?
Originally Posted By utahjosh I believe polygamy was necessary at the time it was introduced. Part of restoring all things to the church of Christ. Part of keeping the LDS population strong in their unique circumstance when so many of the men had been murdered or died crossing the plains. But I don't believe it is the best way to raise a family and establish a nation in our circumstances today.
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf "Part of restoring all things to the church of Christ." Polygamy never existed in Christianity. It was an ancient practice used by the nomadic semitic peoples as a sign of wealth and power. Similar to its use today in the Muslim world. So why exactly did Joseph Smith need to restore a practice that was discontinued by the time of Jesus, that Christians NEVER practiced and that is still existant in other parts of the world??
Originally Posted By mele <<Part of restoring all things to the church of Christ. >> It's called "growing your business". Most people had no intention of joining the new religion so they had to create them instead. Young virgins are great for that.
Originally Posted By utahjosh So why exactly did Joseph Smith need to restore a practice that was discontinued by the time of Jesus, that Christians NEVER practiced and that is still existant in other parts of the world?? I really don't know exactly. But I know that Abraham and other prophets of God practiced it anciently. I believe it was part of that. <It's called "growing your business". Most people had no intention of joining the new religion so they had to create them instead. Young virgins are great for that.> Nope. Sorry. We've grown much bigger since the Lord commanded us to stop.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***I believe polygamy was necessary at the time it was introduced. Part of restoring all things to the church of Christ. Part of keeping the LDS population strong in their unique circumstance when so many of the men had been murdered or died crossing the plains.*** Using that logic, gay marriage could easily be considered "necessary" given the extreme overpopulation problem of planet Earth today. I mean, after all it's not like god has any problem playing fast and loose with sexual morality issues, as Josh points out above. And what about the offspring of Adam and Eve..all those brothers and sisters getting freaky? Yowza.
Originally Posted By mele Sigh. Whatever Josh, you clearly cannot use the slightest bit of logic when it comes to your religion.
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Originally Posted By jdub >>The Bible says marriage is between a man and a woman, and the Catholic church has said this for almost 2000 years. Sorry but that's history and the Bible so maybe the left needs to try to ban the Bible and the Church, so they don't get in the way of gay people playing marriage.<< It's been said here, there, and everywhere else--for those paying attention: THE UNITED STATES IS NOT A THEOCRACY. Nor should it be. The separation of church and state needs to MEAN something, and arguing over legislation with words such as "the Bible says...the Catholic church says..." just proves Proposition 8 has no business being on the ballot.
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Originally Posted By utahjosh <Sigh. Whatever Josh, you clearly cannot use the slightest bit of logic when it comes to your religion.> It's plenty logical to me. It's not logical to you. We both give more credence to the ideas and histories and theories that fit our already decided belief system.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***We both give more credence to the ideas and histories and theories that fit our already decided belief system.*** That's exactly what you're NOT supposed to do, Josh. That's what people who don't have a mind of their own do. Don't be that guy, dude. Think for yourself, and even more importantly CHALLENGE yourself. It's the only way to grow (and I'm not even suggesting you abandon your group or whatever else, but don't let someone else do your thinking for you or refuse to give some proper thought and consideration to ideas that you might otherwise reject out of hand JUST BECAUSE they don't fit into your already decided system...be a thinker, you don't have that brain for no reason after all!!).
Originally Posted By utahjosh <That's exactly what you're NOT supposed to do, Josh.> Every person on the board does that, Mr. X. Maybe not you, though. I don't completely ignore other ideas, Mr X. But I have to tell you - I will never stop believing in Jesus Christ. I will never stop believing the Book of Mormon to be the word of God. I've read plenty of arguments against the Book of Mormon - and none of them have been convincing enough. But one more very important thing you often forget, X - I know Christ lives and is my Savior - and I know it by the holy spirit, not by any facts or history or theory - but by the holy spirit.
Originally Posted By jdub Post 91 >>Like I said if the radical left does not want people to have the vote, or believe in God, then maybe the left should just say that it wants a dictator in power who will tell the people to just do as their told. I must say it nice to see such an honest leftist who says the people have no right to vote.<< I keep rereading my post 90 to see if I said any of the things you said I said. Hmm, NOPE. Let's look again: ... N O P E ! Believing in God, & voting, is not the problem. Forcing religion on the REST of the citizenry IS. And that, by the way, is not a "leftist" view-- Libertarians, Conservatives: classically known as the "get government out of my face" types. BTW, WELCOME TO LP! Enjoy your first day.
Originally Posted By Mr X *I* often forget what you believe? How could I? It's nice that it's a "very important thing" to you, that doesn't mean it is for me though. And I get the impression that pretty much everything I said went in one ear and out the other anyway..so I don't know why I bother. As for everyone doing that (finding their comfort zone), hell yes I understand that. Why do you think FOX and MSNBC do such brisk business? That doesn't mean it's cool, though. Be better than that. Challenge yourself. As for your contention that you've "read plenty of arguments", but none have been convincing enough...well, duh. As you said, you will NEVER change your mind, so there is no room there for any arguments. In other words, if you actually read a convincing argument, you wouldn't know it.
Originally Posted By mele <<We both give more credence to the ideas and histories and theories that fit our already decided belief system.>> No, not everybody does that, Josh. I'm sure it makes you feel better to think so. You have to acknowledge that some things in the past were just flat out wrong, not blame God for them or shrug your shoulders and say "Oh well."
Originally Posted By DAR <<And what about the offspring of Adam and Eve..all those brothers and sisters getting freaky? Yowza.>> That would have been Cain and Abel so that would lead you to believe that one them got it on with Eve.
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