Originally Posted By SpokkerJones Who are you to say that someone is purposefully trying to agitate the group? I see a lot of strong opinions here. Maybe we are all trying to agitate each other. I'll give you an example. Darkbeer gets ribbed for his viewpoints all the time. But wait, I thought you were supposed to attack the idea, not the poster? Are some posters purposely trying to agitate him? If so, we have more trolls around here than you think. Rather than play "spot the troll," allow all viewpoints and you might find some honest discussion.
Originally Posted By mele I'm sorry if you can't spot the difference between a troll and someone who really wants a serious conversation. Thankfully, the rest of us can spot the difference a mile away. Hint: the screennames are often a large clue. Unless you think FDGPKR really wants to have a serious, thoughtful conversation. The owners of this site have the right to set the tone and they have banned him. You are welcome to find other places to post if you find that kind of discourse "thoughtful".
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "Who are you to say that someone is purposefully trying to agitate the group? I see a lot of strong opinions here. Maybe we are all trying to agitate each other." Apparently the Admin thinks so too, so clearly I'm not the only one with such a low opinion of this person's viewpoint. "Rather than play "spot the troll," allow all viewpoints and you might find some honest discussion." No one is playing spot anything. As it was already pointed out to you by Dabob2 this person broke the rules and has been banned from posting here, yet continues to do so in an effort to be disruptive. I find it odd that you are so adamant about rushing to this individual's defense. Can we please get back to the topic, or a least discuss something relative to it?
Originally Posted By mele <<Can we please get back to the topic, or a least discuss something relative to it?>> How 'bout them damn gays? ;-)
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder <a href="http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_12453649?nclick_check=1" target="_blank">http://www.mercurynews.com/bre..._check=1</a>
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder Worked for me just now. <a href="http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_12453649?nclick_check=1" target="_blank">http://www.mercurynews.com/bre..._check=1</a> It says Theodore Olsen and David Boies, who were adversaries on Bush v. Gore, have joined together to file suit in federal court with proper plaintiffs to stop Prop 8 using equal protection as their main argument. They want an injunction pending their suit.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt Does this one work? <a href="http://www.law.com/jsp/tal/digestTAL.jsp?id=1202430997204&Ted_Olson_and_David_Boies_to_Challenge_Prop__in_Federal_Court" target="_blank">http://www.law.com/jsp/tal/dig...al_Court</a>
Originally Posted By ecdc Ted Olsen? That shocks me, but it's great news. Wasn't he Bush's solicitor general? One more sign the tide is turning.
Originally Posted By ecdc <a href="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=%2Fg%2Fa%2F2009%2F05%2F27%2Fnotes052709.DTL" target="_blank">http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/...2709.DTL</a> A great commentary from the San Francisco Chronicle. A snippet: >>Here is what it tells you: Gay marriage is a foregone conclusion. It's a done deal. It's just a matter of time. For the next generation in particular, equal rights for gays is not even a question or a serious issue, much less a sinful hysterical conundrum that can only be answered by terrified Mormons and confused old people and inane referendums funded by same. It's just obvious, inevitable, a given. Let us hereby be reminded, before sadness and frustration overwhelm once more: Proposition 8 and its ilk are merely the last, fitful gasps of a long-dying ideology, markers of a certain kind of sad, conservative desperation. They are the final clawings and scrapings of a reactionary worldview that attempts to outlaw and punish all it cannot, will not understand. Same as it ever was, really.<<
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt Yes, it's a foregone conclusion, however I think we have a unique situation in California that makes that conclusion difficult to reach. It is entirely possible that if the initiative to overturn Prop 8 makes it to the ballot next year it could be defeated. Not saying it will, but the nature of our constitution and the current attitude of the electorate makes it remotely possible that this battle could go on for years.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder <a href="http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/05/bush-v-gore-rivals-challenge-prop-8-in-federal-court.html" target="_blank">http://latimesblogs.latimes.co...urt.html</a> Another link to the Olsen/Boies suit.
Originally Posted By world_falls This was just one small battle that was lost. The homophobes can give it up, they will lose. All they are doing is delaying the inevitable. My daughter is 17 and a lesbian. She is so profoundly accepted in her rural school that it just astonishes me. Moreover, a staggering amount of kids in her school identify as bisexual or gay. It seems like half the kids she grew up with has dated within the same sex. Why so many? Because it is now ok to be who you are. The teachers accept it. The students accept it. And the gay and bisexual kids accept who they are and no longer feel shame. Why do I say it's just a matter of time? Because next year this generation of open-minded kids will be voting. And in two years another open-minded generation will be voting. With every year, there will be more and more open-minded young people replacing the outdated, old-fashioned and narrow minded views of the older generation who will be taking their fears of gay people and burying those fears in their graves with them. It's just a matter of time. The homophobes are wasting time and energy. They can't win. Look around! Many states have civil unions or gay marriage. And guess what? The value of heterosexual marriage isn't deteriorating. The homophobes now look like idiots because their arguments have all been proven to be a load of nonsense. Look how much progress has happened in the last five years! Even through the Bush years that promoted gay-hate, we have still come out ahead! It's exciting to think what the next five years will bring. Proposition 8 was a speed bump. Nothing more. While I feel bad for the gay and lesbian citizens of California, I am not sweating this at all.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt You sound like an amazing parent. You daughter is fortunate be surrounding with so many people who support who she is.
Originally Posted By 4everurdisgrl Homophobe? Since gay marriage has never been legal or accepted in any civilization that mankind has known, where all those billions of people homophobes? Is Obama, Hillary and John Kerry homophobes because they don't support gay marriage like most of the country? I could care less what gay people do, but to call anyone a homophobe because they don't want to change the meaning of marriage is really shallow.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "Homophobe? Since gay marriage has never been legal or accepted in any civilization that mankind has known, where all those billions of people homophobes?" If you don't call it homophobia, what do you call it? FYI: Gay marriage has been accepted in several countries for years. At least one country, the Netherlands, has had legalized same-sex marriage for almost a decade. South Africa, a nation racked with a shameful history of apartheid legalized same-sex marriage in 2006. Even Canada has legalized same-sex marriage. Ironically our civil liberties in this country are way behind on this issue.
Originally Posted By 4everurdisgrl How did I end up on a Didney site talking gay marriage? Homophobe means ---- Scared of gay people. Nobody is scared of gay people so the term homophobe is not accurate and is misleading and not serious. Its used by people who want to demonize the vast majority of people who are against gay marriage in this country. Why is Obama, Hillary and John Kerry against gay marriage? I'm sure you voted for two of them if not all three.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "Homophobe means ---- Scared of gay people." If there is nothing to be scared of, why must marriage be defended? "Why is Obama, Hillary and John Kerry against gay marriage?" They want to get elected.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt How did I end up on a Didney site talking gay marriage? I don't know. Maybe because you clicked on a topic called "Proposition 8 Decision Due Tuesday". Surprise! "Why is Obama, Hillary and John Kerry against gay marriage?" They are probably homophobic - to some degree - too. And yes I voted for them, but compared to the alternative... well, I'll be polite and leave it at that. Definition of homophobe (from dictionary.com): a person who fears or hates homosexuals and homosexuality. Homophobia: 1. Fear of or contempt for lesbians and gay men. 2. Behavior based on such a feeling. So, I think it's pretty safe to say that someone who has extreme feelings about gay people obtaining the legal right to marry are homophobes. This would be particularly true of those Californians who actively sought to take away that right through a voter referendum. Oh, and for the record, Obama publicly stated before the election that he was against Proposition 8.
