Originally Posted By SpokkerJones Obama is also against don't ask, don't tell. I believe the goal to end that stupid policy is also being held up by politics.
Originally Posted By 4everurdisgrl So Obama said he was against Prop 8 yet he says he is also against gay marriage? You voted for this two faced liar? Why? I don't hate gay people but like most Americans, I am against gay marriage. So if I don't hate gay people and I'm not afraid of gay people I guess I'm not a homophobe. These labels the left put on people who don't agree with them are boring and overused at this point. It shows a lack of seriousness. I don't think blind people should drive, so do I hate blind people? Am I a blindaphobe? The country votes against gay marriage every single time not because they hate gay people, but because they know changing marriage damages society as a whole. Some gay people who are honest admit this. These people I respect.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "You voted for this two faced liar? Why?" He lied the least, I guess. "I don't think blind people should drive, so do I hate blind people?" Do you think blind people should marry? "The country votes against gay marriage every single time not because they hate gay people, but because they know changing marriage damages society as a whole" After they declared gay marriage legal, Massachusetts, Connecticut and Iowa became post-apocalyptic wastelands.
Originally Posted By world_falls Well, Hans pretty much responded to all the comments aimed at me exactly as I would, so thanks Hans for saving me the trouble! lol! I truly believe that Obama and Clinton are both for gay marriage, but it would be political suicide to publicly state that. Obama once said that "he was against gay marriage by his opinion was open to evolving." The man is for it, but if he admitted that, do you think he would have been elected? Personally, I would much prefer he lie about his feelings on gay marriage as opposed to letting McCain and Palin get in. And yes, it is a fear. Only fear would make people fight so freaking hard to stop a group of people from getting married when those marriages do absolutely nothing to harm them. Do you know that interracial marriages were illegal in 16 states until 1967? Today we are disgusted by that fact, and in 30 years, your grandchildren will shake their heads in disgust at the fear and hatred that kept gays from having the same rights as you have. So tell me, if it isn't fear, hatred, or disgust that makes you opposed to gay marriage what is it? It doesn't hurt you. Is it that you are a control freak? What? I sure don't know what the issue could possible be. If it doesn't affect you, then why would it be so important to you and other opponents of gay marriage to expend endless energy and insane amounts of money on a cause that has absolutely NO affect in your own day to day lives? If it isn't fear, disgust or hatred, then please, by all means, tell me what it is? I'd love to know. Is it that your religion disagrees? If so, don't get married to somebody of your gender. It's that simple. You can't legislate the Bible and force it's laws on other people! If you could, then I guess you would have to make it illegal to not respect your parents or to have sex outside the marriage or to work on Sunday. Are you willing to fill the jails with people who cheat on their wives? Man, you better start building prisons by the thousands! There's a lot of good Christian men out there cheating on their wives this very second! I bet even a few holy men are out there doing it. How about when your daughter bad mouths you, send her off to detention halls and whip the skin off her, by God, she committed a sin! And should the 24% of Americans who either believe in another God or don't believe at all also fill our prison system? Whoo, the self righteous are sure gonna have a lot of work to do to support all these hardened criminals. If religion is your issue, are you willing to do all that in the name of your beliefs? No? Then why on Earth is gay marriage such an issue? I'll tell you why. Fear and hatred of anything that is different from your "normal" lifestyle. It's very transparent and it just doesn't work. Call it what you like, but it is homophobia. It's the same thing that made white men look upon interracial couples with disgust 20 years ago. Fear of what you don't understand. I don't even buy the tired argument, "But I have gay friends so I'm not a homophobe." My grandfather was a racist, used the N word and looked down upon the majority of blacks to a point where he felt they shouldn't be allowed to marry whites, but had a few black friends that he claimed to love with all his heart. Did it make him less of a racist? No way! Any other arguments as to why gay marriage should be illegal? Is this the best the opposition has? It's no wonder we're beating you guys. You better come up with some kind of valid reason or you're gonna lose your battle. People are catching on. Y'all have been lied to. We're not evil, we're not sinners, we're just like you only we happen to love somebody of the same gender. Hate may sometimes seem dominate over love, but in the end, love rules. You'll see. Someday you'll look back and wonder why it was so freakin' important to you. It's easier to give up on the battles that make no sense. It gives you more time to love your own family, pursue your own happiness, and become a better person. It's just not worth it.
Originally Posted By world_falls "I don't think blind people should drive, so do I hate blind people? Am I a blindaphobe? The country votes against gay marriage every single time not because they hate gay people, but because they know changing marriage damages society as a whole. Some gay people who are honest admit this. These people I respect." Blind people driving affects you. It puts you and your family at risk of an accident. Gay marriage does not affect you. I've heard the same boring arguments from the right about how it damages society as a whole. But yet not one of you have ever, not even once, given an example or two of how this would happen. Incidentally, Denmark was the first country to legalize gay civil unions back in the 80s. For Denmark, civil unions are nearly identical to marriage. Hmmm, let me see, more than 20 years gays have been allowed to marry there. Here's a fun fact! Did you know that Denmark has been voted the happiest country in the world five times over the last ten years? Well, sorry, it doesn't appear that gay marriage ruined that country does it? They have one of the highest standards of living and one of the lowest crime rates. And having been there, I can tell you they are very good, moral people. They just don't sit in judgment of others. They are happy because they don't obsess about what their neighbors are doing and who they are sleeping with. They worry about themselves and their families and in doing so, they experience far less stress. It expends a LOT of energy obsessing about senseless things that don't affect you.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "The country votes against gay marriage every single time not because they hate gay people, but because they know changing marriage damages society as a whole. Some gay people who are honest admit this. These people I respect." This statement is wholly unsupportable. Where's you evidence to back this up? Can you cite us to states or countries that have allowed gay marriage and had marriage "damaged" as a result? Are you married? Would your marriage be threatened in any way if Larry and Joey got married? Or Rhonda and Carol? If so, please detail how this would be.
Originally Posted By barboy ///And yes, it is a fear. Only fear/// No, for some it might be fear(fear of what... I have no idea???) but for others same gender sexual interaction is gross and disgusting. And still for others it goes against their spiritual beliefs. Fear may or may not have anything to do with it as it depends on each person. I don't "fear" a woman who is obese, black, deformed or elderly on a sexual level but I sure want nothing to do with them in bed because I am wholly unattracted to them in that way and I would feel grossed out. 'Fear' is just a left wing catch word because they don't want to come to grips with the dominant truth: many feel disgusted by homosexuality just like a gay man might find the idea of sleeping with a woman repugnant.
Originally Posted By piperlynne I think Wanda Sykes said it best, "If you don't support same sex marriage, don't marry someone of the same sex" (paraphrasing a bit I think) Well, we have cited examples above of countries with civil unions/gay marriage. So those persons that think gay marriage "damages society". Why don't you give us some examples of where this has happened? Got any? . . . . No? I didn't think so.
Originally Posted By mele No, I think it does have something to do with fear because people, including yourself, had to bring up the fact that you *might* have to have sex with them. Sex shouldn't have anything to do with it. Don't worry, most gays or big black women don't want to have sex with you. We don't grant laws on who we want to have sex with and who we think are disgusting naked. Nearly every person who is against homosexuals marrying has an underlying fear that society will be somehow ruined and/or they will eventually be forced to have homosexual sex. It's absurd. If you don't think people deserve the same rights as you just because you might be forced to deal with them in a way that makes you uncomfortable, how on Earth is that not fear-based?
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf <<Gay marriage does not affect you. I've heard the same boring arguments from the right about how it damages society as a whole. But yet not one of you have ever, not even once, given an example or two of how this would happen.>> Amen. How can allowing gays to marry do more damage to marriage than what the heteros have done? It's simply irrational homophobia driving the anti-gay-marriage agenda. <<Here's a fun fact! Did you know that Denmark has been voted the happiest country in the world five times over the last ten years?>> Another definition of "gay" is "happy" so that could make Denmark the gayest country in the world as well. ;-)
Originally Posted By mele <<But yet not one of you have ever, not even once, given an example or two of how this would happen.>> See, once straight people see that gay people can get married, it will ruin marriage for them and they will no longer feel the need to get married. Then they will have fewer children and they will all be born out of wedlock and society is doomed. It's destiny. Also, small children from religious families will learn that there are gay people in the world, in our public schools (!) and we cannot have that. It's really quite simple, don't you see?
Originally Posted By BlueDevilSF Did you know? The antichrist is likely going to be homosexual! From Wasilla's town newspaper: <a href="http://www.frontiersman.com/articles/2009/05/27/faith/doc4a1b794bd0fd9907394285.txt" target="_blank">http://www.frontiersman.com/ar...4285.txt</a>
Originally Posted By barboy ///including yourself, had to bring up the fact that you *might* have to have sex with them./// Where did you get that.... I did not say it here or anywhere nor do I believe that???? ///Don't worry, most gays or big black women don't want to have sex with you. /// what a strage comment to make. ///If you don't think people deserve the same rights as you/// Again, mele where did you get that I'm against marital status for same gendered couples??? I guess you didn't read my post very closely.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 <<<a href="http://www.frontiersman.com/ar...4285.txt>>" target="_blank">http://www.frontiersman.com/ar...>></a> Wow...just, wow!! Who knew we gays could be so scary! Now, not only are we going to destroy society, but one of us could be the Anti-Christ!!! Scary stuff!
Originally Posted By mele No, I'm using the same argument you used. I don't think you're against it but you said it wasn't fear based and brought up sex. And I'm sorry if you found my comment strange. I find most of your comments to be quite bizarre. You brought up how disgusted you would be by the thought of having sex with a particular type (I might have worded it wrong since I was posting on the fly). While there may be quite a few homophobes who are literally quite afraid that they will be raped in their beds by a crazy homosexual, the vast majority of people are just uncomfortable with the idea of gay sex and don't want to have it. I am arguing that that discomfort is STILL fear-based (and possibly hatred-based as it is based on feeling superior to others). It's not an obvious "hate" or "fear" but the underlying thoughts are exactly the same. People are afraid that gay marriage is going to ruin society. Key word "afraid". Just because they don't tape their butt cheeks together in order to not be raped, it doesn't mean that they aren't still cowering to FEAR. It's all based on fear. (And of course, phobia is fear.)
Originally Posted By barboy ///I truly believe that Obama and Clinton are both for gay marriage, but it would be political suicide to publicly state that./// Then both are cowards and don't deserve our respect.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <I don't hate gay people but like most Americans, I am against gay marriage.> I'm old enough to have been around in the 60's, when segregation/Jim Crow was still an open issue. And I have a lot of southern relatives, and some of them supported segregation at that time. Were they hateful people? They weren't really. In most aspects, they were wonderful people, that I loved (and still do). With a couple of exceptions, I couldn't say they hated black people. But they nonetheless supported a hateful system, based on the underlying idea that some people are better than others. And this was simply because they were brought up to believe this. It was "the way things are." They didn't hate black people, but they did think (usually unconsciously) that they were better than them. It was so drilled into them that it was simply an unconscious - but stubborn - underlying assumption. <So if I don't hate gay people and I'm not afraid of gay people I guess I'm not a homophobe. These labels the left put on people who don't agree with them are boring and overused at this point. It shows a lack of seriousness.> Well, just as I wouldn't call my relatives racist, full stop, they nonetheless supported a racist policy. And even though you might not be a homophobe, full stop, you still support a homophobic policy. See the distinction? I'm willing to grant that you might not be a hateful person, but you still support something hateful based on the idea that people are not equal.
Originally Posted By gurgitoy2 "many feel disgusted by homosexuality just like a gay man might find the idea of sleeping with a woman repugnant." Yeah, but you don't see gay men trying to prevent straight people getting married. You mentioned quite a few types of woman you would not like to have sex with, but it's not like you are going out and actively trying to make their lives more difficult by not allowing them to do something. That's the difference. Sure, you may not be comfortable with the idea of sleeping with a guy, or two guys having sex, but that's your own feeling...not everybody else's. Despite those people saying "the overwhelming majority" of people are against same sex marriage. Well, maybe just the people who turned out to vote. Poll ALL the people in the country, including those still in school and see what they say. So, yeah, it's fine to not be attracted to a certain type of person, or be grossed out by the thought of sleeping with somebody of the same sex. However, why should laws be put in place to "protect" people from "ickyness"?
Originally Posted By barboy ///but you said it wasn't fear based and brought up sex./// Maybe you should read my post again. I said some fear while others are grossed out while still others find same gender relations at odds with their spirituality. And I said 'fear' really isn't the most dominant reason and that the left likes to use the catch word. for me....as for same gender sexuality... I don't fear it(nor do people I know) and I don't find it morally wrong(against my spiritual faith) but I am personally disgusted by it since I'm soley attracted to females. The thought of two women doing it or two men going at it completely grosses me out. Marital status for same gendered couples? YES.
