Originally Posted By leobloom >> Nothing says colonial america like Jack Skellington. << >> Almost as bad as Hannah Montana in Tomorrowland. << I stand corrected. All of these are good examples of out-of-place merchandise. But I still think there's something especially egregious (or ridiculous or just plain lazy) about the balls in the breezeways. They're not even part of the Disney brand, which is what makes their presence even more mystifying to me. You think they'd at least slap some characters on the things to make them conform to the all-mighty "Disney brand". Guess people buy them anyway (which brings me back to that question: But WHY?!).
Originally Posted By jmuboy If WDW maintained the quality of cleanliness, maintenance, merchandise choice, and food choice (i.e. - no dumbed down shopping and boring menus) as they did from 1971 to 1995 then YES, I would be more loyal to Disney (all things assumed the same in terms of the amount of new attractions added in recent years would stay the same).
Originally Posted By plpeters70 <<But I still think there's something especially egregious (or ridiculous or just plain lazy) about the balls in the breezeways.>> Those stupid things have been there for YEARS - at least from the early 1990s on. They must actually sell a lot of those things, otherwise I just can't understand why they keep them there. But I'm not really surprised - Future World has been an absolute mess since the 90s. They just can't seem to decide what they want to do with it. Future World originally had the most amazing coherence between all the pavilions - you really felt like they were all connected in theme, and represented a very specific vision of the future. Sure, they all discussed different aspects of that future, and the presentation was slightly different between them, but they all had a very similar vibe. Some people think that was a weakness of EPCOT, but I always felt it was a great strength. Now, Future World is a mess - and each pavilion feels like it exists within it's own reality with barely any connection to any of the others. They really need to come up with a unifying Master Plan for that place - otherwise it's going to continue to deteriorate even more as the years go on.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer Agreed in full, Peter. Cohesiveness is vital to keeping EPCOT in line with what Disney tries to do with themed environments. While content is a huge issue, and a lot would need to be refurbished, aesthetics could at least fix the mood of the area. Whirlygigs and odd color combos really don't convey a working vision of tomorrow.
Originally Posted By Christi22222 Wow, I might have to run away after confessing this....but I own a few of those balls. The first was a gift to my son, and it has a fun AK theme with the tree and all. The ball was so fun and useful, that we bought the kiddo a bigger one a few years later. I think he was 5 ish. I can tell you why the ball is fun and different from other balls if you care. They travel very well, and are greatly amusing with water or sand in them. But all of this is totally irrelevant. I completely agree that they DO NOT belong in EC, on a cart, being sold by carney's! Heck I don't even like the idiotic traffic blocking cart sellers in my own mall. And this is Epcot! It falls in line in my mind with all the stupid DVC carts. I guess Disney is one place I don't feel I should have to be afraid to make eye contact because then I will get the full court press to buy something. The final straw was when a few years ago my son went to Chuck E Cheese and won one of those Balzacs. So now Disney is selling the same crap you get at Chuck E Cheese for FREE?! What on Earth is wrong with TDO these days?
Originally Posted By vbdad55 ^^^ I assume you have had a 'full court press' to buy DVC ? Most people i know say if anything they are far too laid back..not aggressive.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper Best thing about those balls? Their name Balzac. Think about it. I can't go by them and not laugh anymore. Immature? Probably. but I have fun with it.
Originally Posted By Christi22222 >>I assume you have had a 'full court press' to buy DVC ? Most people i know say if anything they are far too laid back..not aggressive.<< vbdad...I am trying like heck to see your points and understand the other view of DVC. I can appreciate that you have a lot of business knowledge and an opinion about DVC gained partly through your ownership experience. But when you ignore the gist of a comment to laser in on a small bit of it to make a point regarding DVC, and do so relentlessly in many threads, it makes it very hard to listen to you. I think the point that kiosks are out of place is legitimate. I don't believe it has anything to do with the validity of DVC as a business plan. I just said that I like the stupid balls, I just don't think they should be sold in carts in EC. So the same could be true of DVC. I could believe that DVC is the saving grace to the doors not closing at WDW, but I could still not like them sold at a cart. The "full court press" phrase simply conveys the fact that I don't like to be approached about anything in Disney. Some folks are more laid back, others are more aggressive. I have had both experiences with DVC.
Originally Posted By leobloom >> Best thing about those balls? Their name Balzac. << You mean they're named after Honore de Balzac, the nineteenth-century French novelist? Wow! Epcot really is a cultured place!! But I should've already known that from the Victor Hugo toilets in World Showcase.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 But when you ignore the gist of a comment to laser in on a small bit of it to make a point regarding DVC, and do so relentlessly in many threads, it makes it very hard to listen to you ---- tell me why you needed to make a superfluous comment insinuating that making eye contact will somehow ruin someone's time there in the park ? It makes it very hard for me to read posts also when little snippets like that are tossed out - adding nothing to the discussion about the product (balls) being sold in Epcot center. I am far from important enough to think they were intended for me- but you are also bright enough to know they only encourage rebuttal from others- and piling on by another segment - If the comments continue to be made , they will be responded to -- by myself- or RT or others...you can't tell me that this surprises you . They are selling a Disney product - so I fail to see how they are out of place. In the lands especially the DVC ownerships also allows for vacations to every country represented - so I fail to see the disconnect - especially there. If they placed a kiosk in the queue for Haunted Mansion - yes I would see that being an issue because they is no connection other than the Disney logo - but at EPCOT ? so I am sorry it is hard to listen to me- it is also hard for me to continue to read shots at DVC - thinly veiled or full on in virtually every thread also, I am sorry that happens as well. I can't remember a thread where myself or any other DVC defenders started a thread based on the values of DVC.. or turned a thread into a pro DVC thread BEFORE the sniping started. If you can, please point it out. I prefer to leave that discussion for the DVC topic heading - so when it comes to infusing DVC into many of the conversations, you are chastising the wrong person.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 <<They are selling a Disney product - so I fail to see how they are out of place.>> Add me to the list of people who think they're out of place inside the parks. You want to have stands at the entrances - fine with me. Just like they have movie posters for the latest Disney offerings outside the gates of the Magic Kingdom, why not DVC kiosks there too. They don't need to actually have them INSIDE the parks to get eyes on them. Having them at the hotels, or outside the park gates, would be just as effective.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper ^^^Agreed. I don't need to see Disney advertisements inside of Disney. I want to enjoy the theming of the parks. i don't need an advert for timeshares in my face as well. Outside of the park? Fine. Go for it. I have the same problem at Universal when they have signs for their meal deal in the front of IoA. Bugs me.
Originally Posted By leobloom But you guys are missing the point. DVC is, like, a money-maker. Who cares if DVC kiosks are jarring and out of place in the theme parks? They make money! I would actually be in favor of adding some DVC adverts in the restrooms. I can't imagine anything more relaxing than sitting on the toilet looking at a DVC advertisement in front of me. Disney's best kept secret. Emptying my bowels. Sounds like a match made in heaven. I'm sure vddad would agree with me.
Originally Posted By Christi22222 >>Whirlygigs and odd color combos really don't convey a working vision of tomorrow. << Kinda depends on your vision of tomorrow, doesn't it? Could work if you're, say, 3 years old and "tomorrow" is the most awesome daycare ever!!
Originally Posted By NikkiLOVESMickey <<Some dumb blonde wench in a volvo suv cut me off yesterday as I was trying to leave school. When I find out who she is I'm going to double her child's tuition.>> LOL, you are the best, bobbelee!
Originally Posted By NikkiLOVESMickey <<Agreed. I don't need to see Disney advertisements inside of Disney. I want to enjoy the theming of the parks. i don't need an advert for timeshares in my face as well.>> Oh come on, you KNOW why they are there! Family is having blast in (insert park name here) and are already mentally planning their next vacation to WDW. The DVC booth is there because they catch guests while they're enjoying the product they are selling. It's advertising 101, kids - putting them outside the parks won't be as effective.
Originally Posted By MousDad >>Best thing about those balls? Their name Balzac.<< I'm trying desperately to let my immaturity not get the best of me, and follow this up with some risky quip, but I'm finding it, in a word, hard.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 Nice thread, EE. I've got so much to add, but don't even know where to start and the reason for that is quite simple (and elitist to some who have no desire or the financial means to travel beyond WDW) and that is one fundamental point: people who have been visiting WDW only since the mid/late 1990s or later as regulars have NO CLUE as to what quality really is. Let's be blunt, WDW is the mass market theme park/mega hotel and timeshare resort TWDC likes to use as an ATM in good financial times (which we aren't having now ... funny how the $800 billion bailout actually was nine TRILLION in 0% interest deals to buy up huge amounts of assets while the peasants slept ... and I am getting off track, but the mentality IS the thing). Most WDW guests and Cast do not know what true great Disney quality is ... not in cleanliness, show quality standards, merchandise etc. In the 1990s many longtime management cast were either forced out or retired and were replaced by outsiders, MBAs and consultants. People who didn't understand or care about why you maintained things to the highest levels (why clean hotel carpeting or pressure clean walkways? who looks down, right? what's wrong with letting wood rot or bulbs burn out on hotels that people are paying $300 a night to stay in?) ... people who decided to break what had worked for Disney for four decades of theme parks management. So what if the quality went down? If you didn't come back then someone else would take your place and they'd have lower expectations. If you were simply addicted -- and again, let's be blunt, there's a significant portion of Disney fans who are so blinded by pixie dust that it likely could qualify as having real mental illness -- then you were coming back again and again no matter if food quality dropped and prices went up 50% in a few years, no matter if the quality merchandise left so that every shop could push Walmart crap, no matter if your Mousekeeper could make great towel animals (where's Winky's old man?) but couldn't clean a room to where you didn't have to wonder what those mystery stains on the sheets were. The fact is guests and cast are just as much at fault for allowing and justifying Disney's dumbed down product as management is. They are only doing it because they can get away with it. Ask yourself why that is. I have spent a large chunk of the last week in the best-run, cleanest, highest quality in many ways Disney parks in the world ... and Disney doesn't own them. Not one percent. They arent't perfect (and I'll discuss that in my own threads down on the mostly ignored TDR board!), but that really appears to be the goal. The OLC didn't meet my high expectations ... in almost every area they not only exceeded them, but blew them clear out of Tokyo Bay. But there's a desire to provide the highest quality product in themed entertainment in the world. And they deliver. Do you think that Al Weiss, Erin Wallace, Meg Crofton and Co. have any delusions they're trying to do likewise? Of course not. They are trying to live off a legacy that dates back well before they were alive and think they can do it by spouting off words like 'magic' ... 'wishes' ... 'dreams' ad nauseum. Oh, and make the next quarter's numbers better than the last or in comparison to the prior year. And then you have a fanbase that wets itself (sorry, I know bodily functions are Leo's territory here) when you see a new planter, restroom or constuction wall or scrim. It's just mindboggling to me how people who consider themselves Disney fans are, or have become, apologists for crap. What's just plain sadder is the fact many WDW visitors truly don't know any better ... they don't travel ... they weren't around when WDW actually delivered the product it claims to in 2010 ... and they take it as a personal affront when you point out that just maybe their opinions might not mesh with reality. But hey, EE, one thing this old Spirit has learned is that for some Disney is a religion and WDW is its mecca and can not be criticized. I, personally, look forward to being able to engage in a bashfest when I compare it to TDR in a thread coming to a LP near you early in 2011 (aren't shameless plugs almost as fun as construction walls? BTW, since I have pics of a PhilharMagic conctruction wall, a Midway Mania construction wall, a Jasmine's spinner construction wall AND -- yes, there's more -- a Lost River Delta themed meet and greet construction wall, do you think Doobie will pay me for them? Or should I just make a fanboi DVD?) Keep up the good work, young Explorer and I might bring you back Tokyo treasures ;-)
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>They are selling a Disney product - so I fail to see how they are out of place. In the lands especially the DVC ownerships also allows for vacations to every country represented - so I fail to see the disconnect - especially there.<<< Seriously?! It's WAY more than just the average product. It's a investment. And to place them in the parks, when the guest is supposedly is havimg the time of his life, and trying to reel them in through that emotionally based response is, admitadly, sneaky, but good business. I wouldn't have an issue if they didn't look so out of place. The ones in EPCOT certainly do. They are not cohesive, they are covered in Disney imagery and logos, they just don't fit. It's all about saturation of the brand again. I don't go to EPCOT to see Disney. I go to EPCOT for EPCOT. Keep all the characters, all the oxide dust, and all the marketing crap out of the parks. Or at least do it tastefully. EPCOT used to have a travel center in CCore... Honestly, if that were a THEMED DVC office, I would not mind.
