Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <It is sad, after 10, nearly 11 years on LP, it just is no longer as much fun for me...> <<My sentiments exactly, but my reasons are the exact opposite of yours. The haters have taken over.>> Yeah ... sure. I think it's more of the folks who defend Walmarting and mediocrity and treat WDW like a religion because they don't go anywhere else. When your whole vacation time is one week every year at OKW or PO or the Poly, you don't want to hear all the reasons why the place you are going is really a pale shadow of what it could, should, would and used to be. ... because if you had to see reality then you might feel a bit taken ... a bit lost ... a bit disenchanted. Much better to live coated in pixie dust. I'd really advise folks with that type of disposition to stay away from my upcoming TDR/WDW comparison because I'd hate to be the cause of any holiday suicides (well, at least in the LP!) ~The Spirit's Disney-Hating Round The World 2010 Tour: April: Disney Magic 15-day transatlantic eastbound; May: WDW; August: DLR; September: WDW; October: WDW, HKDL; November: HKDL, TDR; December: TDR, HKDL and ??? ~
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>I think you can be a loyal visitor and still be a vocal critic. I think it is important to stop by City Hall and tell them when expectations aren't met. Conversly, I think you should stop at City Hall when expectations are exceeded.<<<< Exactly. Can't say I do the latter as much as I should, but I'll correct that next week. Unless everything is abysmal....
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>My sentiments exactly, but my reasons are the exact opposite of yours. The haters have taken over.<<< So, honestly, what do you want? Everyone to agree and to be positive, and for the lack of opinion to be boring? Can't have a discussion board with everyone being happy. Nor can you have with everyone being critical, I should add. Compared to other places, I think we have a very happy balance here.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo You know what, I went to our local Victorian Christmas Fair today, there were food stands from across Europe (enjoyed honey coated cashews, sour dried cherries, rice stuffed vine leaves, hog roast, english sausages, curry wurst, cheese stuffed german spicy sausage, belgian apple strudle. And as we enjoyed these treats, we enjoyed numerous walk around street characters, a 45 minute street production of a Christmas Carol, as well as organ grinders, brass bands, rockabilly ensembles, morris dancing, craft stalls for the kids, and edutainment exhibits. My wife turned to me and said, "it's like Epcot used to be", I said, yes it is.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo But if I lived in a place where nothing ever happened, and I had never really been anywhere but WDW on vacation (especially not the other Disney resorts). I might be like the other defenders too. But you know what? I have been a global traveller most of my life. And I still used to love WDW. I no longer do. Sure I have fun, I have fun most other places too.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<My perspective is this. I am ANGRY about what has happened to Disney, especially at WDW, while Disney has dumbed things down while hiking prices, the rest of the world has been playing catch up. And the defenders are a big part of the problem, and annoy the hell out of me (which is why I take time out occassionaly). I have written letters to Disney and left comments at city hall, and occassionally they have tried to buy my loyalty. I don't free crap, I want Disney to restore the standards they made us come to expect.>> Bingo. It really started when I started working for them and saw how much those in charge regularly crap on the workers and the legacy of Walt Disney. A friend who had a problem about something thematically (and easy to fix) brought it up to our area manager an was promptly told to remember that, and I quote, "Walt's dead. We do things differently now." In the three years I've worked there, I've seen the yeti broken without being fixed, multiple problems throughout MK only being fixed because the big boys in Cali told them to, and dining and merchandise go down the crapper. It's no longer something to be annoyed by. It's out right infuriating. <<But to be honest, I think I am done with WDW, I still peek occassionally in the hopes that things improve (like Disneyland did). I would like to potentially return to Orlando one day to see friends, the WWOHP, and as the kids get older, take them to Discovery cove and KSC.>> Honestly, I completely agree. After my next trip in January, I don't plan on returning. As of now, I want to go to Disneyland, and if I'm going to Orlando it'll just be for Universal(which I think currently is a much better resort). I might pop into DHS or Epcot for a day when at Universal, but no more really. I just don't see WDW being worth the money right now.
Originally Posted By sjhym333 We just got back from a day at Epcot and Disney-MGM (hate the other name)and all I can say is...the place was packed. And I am not talking weekend packed, I am talking holiday weekened packed. About 15 mins to get thru the turnstile at EPCOT because the lines were thru the ticket booths. Congested walkways in FutureWorld and World Showcase. Over at the Studios it was also very packed. Restuarants were busy and the streets were crowded...even those away from the Osborne Lights. As we were leaving I ran into the duty manager who is a friend and he said the place had beaten projected attendance and said the quietest place in the park tonight was the 6:30 showing of Fantasmic. Osborne lights was crowded as expected. One last thing about our day. Isn't it time they fixed the parking lot at Disney-MGM? Most of the traffic comes from the side that has one parking booth and traffic was backed to the light and the main road. Then you have to cross the road that has buses and cars exiting the front lot. Then there is a CM standing near the tram lane trying to keep traffice from two directions from hitting each other. It's insane. When we left the parking lot was full and people were following guests exiting as they walked to their spaces. It is time to have one entrance road in with one set of parking booths and a traffic pattern that makes sense.
Originally Posted By bobbelee9 So all the problems started when Hokie went there to work. Finally there is someone to blame. . Talk about jumping to conclusions. Everybody loving Disney or everyone hating Disney, both would be bad. I haven't set foot in a Walmart in maybe seven years although there are two within ten miles of my home. I do not defend crap. But I do defend me when I get called ignorant for not wanting to go to DL. Why can't people criticize situations without insulting people??
Originally Posted By Mickeymouseclub BUT Disney is making WDW worth the money. I just had one trip scheduled to DL and one trip to WDW exact same weekends(my birthday). Flights much cheaper flying into MCO vs LAX, free Magic Express to WDW not offered with DL Resorts; POP Century Value Resort $65 per night versus BWParkPlace on harbor $159 per night. I did not have free dining but I do believe everybody else at WDW had free dining. I know this is part of the problem but the crowds certainly seemed happy.
Originally Posted By GOB I'll add in my two cents on this. My family and I have been visiting WDW since 2000, when the parks really took a turn for the worse. We stay for a week in deluxe resorts, use the Magical Express, never leave property, Park Hop like there's no tomorrow, the works. It was until 2010 (after a few years of reading comments on several message boards) that I really noticed how blind I am. No one in my family or myself noticed that certain walls needed a coat a paint, or that the Liberty Belle's smokestacks were rusted out, or lightbulbs were burnt out across property. But I changed the way I look at Disney parks. It wasn't until recently that I really started analyzing 70's era vacation literature, and I noticed some pretty disheartening things. Rides were fresh. Things were regularly repainted and refurbished. The parks overflowed with flowers which have since been replaced with more cost-effective green shrubbery. Plants filled where fountains previously spurted water. Food and beverage locations used to offer decent food. Merchandise used to be unique. And the more I read places like LaughingPlace and WDWMagic, the more ticked off I became, at management and more startingly, guests like myself who were too dumb to realize we've been shorted and gipped. But the conundrum lies that I love WDW. I look forward to every minute I spend there. I can't wait until I'm at the Contemporary next year watching fireworks from my balcony, or when I'm along the boardwalk in Frontierland taking in the sites, or strolling through MGM Studios with a stuffed pretzel in hand. But like '74 said (on WDWMagic, I believe), mentioning those "magical" moments isn't changing anything. It's not benefitting anyone. Disney is milking memories like that for their latest ad campaign, which is smoke and mirrors for the fact that they haven't added anything worthwhile to the parks in years. I want change, darn it.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>I just don't see WDW being worth the money right now.<<< I feel the same way about DHS and DAK. EPCOT and MK still have "it" for me.
Originally Posted By NikkiLOVESMickey The can of worms is officially open. <<Yeah ... sure. I think it's more of the folks who defend Walmarting and mediocrity and treat WDW like a religion because they don't go anywhere else. When your whole vacation time is one week every year at OKW or PO or the Poly, you don't want to hear all the reasons why the place you are going is really a pale shadow of what it could, should, would and used to be. ... because if you had to see reality then you might feel a bit taken ... a bit lost ... a bit disenchanted.>> Yes, I'm so limited and stupid that I need you to tell me how limited and stupid I am. Just because I don't brag about my trips (and name drop) on LP doesn't mean I haven't visited anywhere else in the last year. I haven't been to DL yet, but I do plan on going as soon as I can afford it; I don't go to DL at Mardi Gras because my 82 year-old mother wants to go to WDW and I look forward to spending time with her. Stop talking about things you know absolutely nothing about. Additionally, just because I don't beat the "WDW isn't like it used to be" horse to death doesn't mean I don't realize that WDW isn't the same. I choose not to repeat myself like a broken record because I don't want to bore people and seem like a killjoy, unlike yourself. I'd rather focus on how much I enjoy my trips than to wallow in my own self-importance by pointing out the obvious over and over and over again. <<But if I lived in a place where nothing ever happened, and I had never really been anywhere but WDW on vacation (especially not the other Disney resorts). I might be like the other defenders too.>> Yes, I live in the most boring place in the world where NOTHING happens. It's all in my imagination. There weren't two fantastic Christmas parades this weekend, or a Christmas festival at the French Market (all of which were free). I didn't go have a fantastic dinner last night or bowl and enjoy time with friends at one of the most unique bowling alleys anywhere, which features live music and dancing every night. I can't go walk in one of the most historic and beautiful cities in the US (if not the world) and enjoy live music and explore unique stores and boutiques (also for free). I didn't visit an art market last Wednesday that featured unique food offerings, live bands, and beautiful handmade gifts. I can't enjoy festivals (nearly every weekend), music, fantastic museums and galleries, spectacular food, or watch a world champion football team play tomorrow, either. I've obviously built all of this up in my head, because I live in boring, podunk New Orleans. It's funny how the people who consider ME sheltered are so caught up in turning up their noses at things and people on this board that they don't know how unique the lives of us "little folk" really are. Yet again, both you and Spirit are better than all of us, aren't you? Please, stop straining your precious necks sneering at all of us underlings from your high horses. <<So, honestly, what do you want? Everyone to agree and to be positive, and for the lack of opinion to be boring? Can't have a discussion board with everyone being happy. Nor can you have with everyone being critical, I should add. Compared to other places, I think we have a very happy balance here.>> It's OVERKILL. The same points are brought up by the same people over and over just so they can hear themselves talk. If these same people e-mailed WDW with their concerns as often as they posted on here, they might actually get results. Instead, we get to hear it all day long. I don't care how many WDW spies are watching Spirit's posts, he would be better served complaining directly to the source. Then again, he wouldn't have actual people to put down and call rubes while complaining, so I can see why he doesn't. Spirit and dave insult other people and their perspectives regularly. I've been tired of it for quite some time and have complained about it off and on for years now. They come off to those of us who don't worship THEM as bullies and snobs. I don't know them personally but, based on the way they present themselves on these boards, I don't WANT to know them personally.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<Spirit and dave insult other people and their perspectives regularly.>> I don't see Spirit or Dave attacking people on a personal level. Do they disagree with others' perspectives on WDW? Yes, and quite publicly. But they do NOT deliberately insult people for who they are, fundamentally. That's your interpretation because they're not in 100% agreement with your opinion about WDW. <<I've been tired of it for quite some time and have complained about it off and on for years now.>> And yet here you are, still participating on a discussion board that supposedly gives you so much pain and anguish. If it's that much of a problem, why do you bother? <<They come off to those of us who don't worship THEM as bullies and snobs.>> I don't worship either one and have disagreed with their views plenty of times, but I don't see them as bullies and snobs at all. <<I don't know them personally but, based on the way they present themselves on these boards, I don't WANT to know them personally.>> I don't know Dave personally, but I know Spirit. I've known him for years. And I'm grateful that Spirit considers me to be one of his friends. Sounds to me as though you can't tolerate differing opinions from anyone. I doubt you have many friends, if any, who don't see eye-to-eye with you on everything. Heaven forbid they should happen to hate something you truly love. I honestly don't know what your trip is, but you're painting two well-respected and experienced Disney fans with a very broad brush of prejudice. Just because they don't love love love everything about WDW, you get your knickers in a bunch and want to banish them from the boards. As for Spirit "complaining directly to the source"... what makes you think he doesn't? Spirit has and does complain to very deeply placed sources inside the Mouse all the time. He also complains here and on other Disney fan sites. If this stuff truly bothers you this much, you should just leave. Isn't that the advice fans like you constantly offer up to the complainers? "If you hate Disney World so much, why do you keep going back?" Well, what's good for the goose... "If you hate LP so much, why do you keep going back?" Works for me.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper << If these same people e-mailed WDW with their concerns as often as they posted on here, they might actually get results.>> HA! If only things worked that way.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>It's OVERKILL. The same points are brought up by the same people over and over just so they can hear themselves talk.<<<< And yet this is the first time you've ever said this? You can't complain about complainers if... well... if you are complaining!
Originally Posted By NikkiLOVESMickey <<I don't see Spirit or Dave attacking people on a personal level.>> It wasn't so long ago that Spirit claimed my posts were on the same level as toilets. It wasn't more than week ago that he called people "rubes" for not seeing how bad WDW is. I'm also blind to WDW's problems and need someone like Spirit to point them out to me. According to Dave I'm limited because I live in a place where nothing happens. No, they aren't insulting - they're angels. <<Sounds to me as though you can't tolerate differing opinions from anyone. I doubt you have many friends, if any, who don't see eye-to-eye with you on everything. Heaven forbid they should happen to hate something you truly love.>> You said it - HATE. Why do they come to a Disney board if they hate the place? And you obviously did not read my earlier post - I see the problems, I just don't harp on them 24/7. How many times can Spirit say "Wal-Marting" on a board? If we drank every time he did it, we would all be in the hospital with cirrhosis of the liver. Voice your opinion, don't beat me over the head with it. <<And yet here you are, still participating on a discussion board that supposedly gives you so much pain and anguish. If it's that much of a problem, why do you bother?>> Because I want it back to what it was - back when it wasn't negative 90% of the time. Back when people expressed differing opinions and weren't insulted for it. <<As for Spirit "complaining directly to the source"... what makes you think he doesn't? Spirit has and does complain to very deeply placed sources inside the Mouse all the time. He also complains here and on other Disney fan sites.>> Maybe they're tired of hearing the same thing over and over again from someone who appears to be a disgruntled hater instead of a fan with concerns? If I were a Disney exec and he beat me over the head with his opinion the same way he does on these boards, I'd ignore it. If you think someone won't be satisfied no matter what you do, why would you bother? <<And yet this is the first time you've ever said this? You can't complain about complainers if... well... if you are complaining!>> I'm not the only one! This place used to be full of differing opinions. Now if you don't bash WDW, you're a rube or a bumpkin. This place used to be enjoyable - now it's miserable. I want it back the way it used to be. When someone expresses the same opinion, I'm going to back them up.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox << This place used to be enjoyable - now it's miserable. I want it back the way it used to be.>> And we want WDW back to the way it used to be. But that ain't gonna happen. Until folks stop going and spending their cash, Disney will keep dumbing down the resort. And until you and others stop coming to LP to participate, it's not going to change either. The gate swings both ways.
