Originally Posted By vbdad55 ^^^^^^^^^^ and no, there is no place for this kind of crap, in an election or in life in general, but let's not pretend it happens in one camp and never in the other. We've come a long way (IMHO) in the last 30-35 years since I grew up in a very divided south side of Chicago. I saw hate first hand - and I can tell you it's not pretty. But we have a long way yet to go - and some people unfortunately will never get there...
Originally Posted By WorldDisney Thanks Vbdad for all of that, but A. It WASN'T at a Presidential rally, nowhere near one in fact. B. None of it was instigated by Obama in any way. C. The MINUTE that surfaced, not only did Obama call a press conference denouncing that idiots actions, he finally left the church for good. Again, if McCain had at least DENOUNCED these people before this weekend, he would look a little better but no one did, period! I mean, c'mon people this stuff is night and day!! If Obama had these people at his rallies condoning and saying this stuff, then you have a point. But when McCain rallies bring people in like the Florida sheriff to shout Obama's middle name, HUSSEIN, its nothing more than to instigate fear into the truly weak minded and uneducated of society nothing more and we alll know it. And what was sad about that sheriff is when McCain OWN pastor friend kept shouting Obama's middle name at a rally 6 months ago, McCain immediately denounced his actions and that guy was no longer seen again stomping for him....and now I guess its perfectly okay to cite his middle name to scare the intended. Its amazing the 180 this man is now doing for votes. So yeah, not NEARLY the same thing in my book, sorry.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<And what was sad about that sheriff is when McCain OWN pastor friend kept shouting Obama's middle name at a rally 6 months ago, McCain immediately denounced his actions and that guy was no longer seen again stomping for him....and now I guess its perfectly okay to cite his middle name to scare the intended. Its amazing the 180 this man is now doing for votes.>> Please tell me the time or place when either McCain or Palin (or anyone officially with the campaign for that matter) used Obama's middle name. That time and place does not exist and you know it.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/10/AR2008101002456.html?hpid=opinionsbox1" target="_blank">http://www.washingtonpost.com/...ionsbox1</a> From the link: "The real affront is the lack of firm response from either McCain or Palin. Neither has had the moral courage, when taking the stage, to grasp the microphone, turn to the presenter and, right then and there, denounce the use of Obama's middle name as an insult. Instead, they have simply delivered their stump speeches, lacing into Obama as if nothing out-of-bounds had just happened. The McCain-Palin ticket has given toxic speeches accusing Obama of being a friend of terrorists, then released short, meek repudiations of some of the rough stuff, including McCain's call Friday to "be respectful." Back in February, the Arizona senator apologized for the "disparaging remarks" from a talk-radio host who sneered repeatedly about "Barack Hussein Obama" before a McCain rally. "We will have a respectful debate," McCain insisted afterward. But pretending to douse flames that you are busy fanning does not qualify as straight talk."
Originally Posted By SuperDry Here's another upstanding McCain supporter: <a href="http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/1008082voter1.html?link=rssfeed" target="_blank">http://www.thesmokinggun.com/a...=rssfeed</a> Although the story doesn't say he's a McCain supporter, I think that's the only reasonable conclusion that can be drawn. Oh, BTW, anyone that's upset with me trying to link this story with the McCain campaign might want to consider how "domestic terrorist" acts committed when Obama was all of 8 years old have anything to do with anything, other than trying to create a "guilt by association" aura.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Please tell me the time or place when either McCain or Palin (or anyone officially with the campaign for that matter) used Obama's middle name.*** Are speakers at their rallys "officially with the campaign"? If so, there are plenty of times and places. If not, please explain why such speakers are not implicitly endorsed by the McCain campaign.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney ^^Huh, where did I say they did?? I was responding to Vbdad's post where she said an Obama SUPPORTER said something stupid and was denounced by Obama because of it! I then made the point, its not so much of what these people say, but more of how the candidates themselves take responsibility when they speak for them and tell them they dont feel the same way AS Obama did and AS McCain did against his pastor the FIRST time around...and then the sheriff says it and no one even blinks over there anymore. I thought I made my points clear on this.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<and now I guess its perfectly okay to cite his middle name to scare the intended. Its amazing the 180 this man is now doing for votes.>> Oh, okay, I'm looking at my own wording now and I see where the confusion came from RT . No, I wasn't implying in ANY way McCain nor Palin says that, my statement was the continued point about the sheriff nothing more, but I think you read the above as if I was saying McCain or Palin was saying it as well. No, not at all, but I can see how you would think that . My mistake, the internet is a great communcation device, but things do get lost in translation sometimes, especially typing 100 words a minute .
Originally Posted By RoadTrip OK. In other words I am correct. Neither McCain nor Palin have done that crap. As far as controlling your supporters, we all know you sometimes can't do much about that. Did Obama ever come out and denounce the violent protests in St. Paul during the RNC? No he did not. And why the hell should he? He had nothing to do with it, there was no reason for him to denounce or apologize for it. Same thing with McCain. To a certain extent, do you even want to give these wack-jobs the dignity of renouncing them?
Originally Posted By WorldDisney Thanks for the post #24 SPPH, Yeah, that's EXACTLY what I was talking about. McCain had no problem taking that tool on the second he heard about it....and he wasnt even THERE when the guy said it (I think he was on his way to the event). NOW, you got a sheriff that says right in front of them and they didnt even blink. I mean, why didn't the same outrage happen there? McCain went out of his way to denounce the first guy and this one got a free pass right in front of them. Unreal! Once again, a big change in how McCain is conducting this campaign.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip By the way... I posted #30 before reading #29. I in no way intended to gloat over the fact that WD indicated that his post may not have been entirely clear. I would not do something like that.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***OK. In other words I am correct. Neither McCain nor Palin have done that crap. As far as controlling your supporters, we all know you sometimes can't do much about that.*** This is bunk, because as you know they haven't even tried. And worse, THEY caused it. Ridiculous.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Did Obama ever come out and denounce the violent protests in St. Paul during the RNC? No he did not. And why the hell should he? He had nothing to do with it, there was no reason for him to denounce or apologize for it. Same thing with McCain. To a certain extent, do you even want to give these wack-jobs the dignity of renouncing them?*** No it's not the same thing with McCain. The difference is, he DID have something to do with it. He had everything to do with it in fact. He calls Obama "dangerous" and then tells some guy he shouldn't fear an Obama presidency? He runs commercials about Obama "working with Terrorists" and then scolds an old lady for her fear that Obama is an Arab? Give it a rest, RoadTrip. This stuff is indefensible.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Please show me how.*** Please, RoadTrip. Don't be ridiculous. Are you REALLY trying to imply that McCain didn't create this atmosphere himself? Really? <a href="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=M9JNna5EmJg" target="_blank">http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=...Nna5EmJg</a> <a href="http://uk.youtube.com/user/johnmccaindotcom?ob=4" target="_blank">http://uk.youtube.com/user/joh...com?ob=4</a> Come on, RoadTrip. You must be kidding at this point. Really, this stuff is obvious, blatant, and indefensible. If McCain had a shred of decency he'd hold a press conference to apologize for his actions, and immediately take down the commercials. Let's not all hold our breath though.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<OK. In other words I am correct. Neither McCain nor Palin have done that crap. As far as controlling your supporters, we all know you sometimes can't do much about that.>> LOL RT, I dont know what you want from me. I will say it again: it was a DIRECT response to what Vbdad was saying about Obama and his idiot pastors. I was simply making the point, that Obama denounced the guy right away even THOUGH Obama didnt say any of that himself and in fact, it was at his church, it was nowhere near a Presidential campaign rally, but Obama still called a press conference to denounce it. I then cited McCain direct problem he had with his supporters speaking FOR him at a sponsored McCain rally event. That's the difference. But NO ONE is saying McCain belives that....in fact, I will go the distance here and say McCain doesnt even buy into the Obama-Ayers B.S., he's trying to win votes nothing more which is why its so sad to me. If I HONESTLY believe McCain thought Obama association with Ayers was dangerous, I could go along with the discussion a little more. Showing what he did on Friday proves he knows its B.S. like most out there. Anyway, if he really doesnt like the middle name association and knows how it rallys the weak minded, then he SHOULD denounce it at his OWN events. Seriously, I dont know how I can make this clearer. It has nothing to do with McCain himself, but these people are speaking for him, that becomes a problem. (And how many supporters in this election from Clinton, Obama, McCain and etc went too far in their statements and kicked off the campaign beccaus of it? More than I can count lol. In fact these 'supporters' seem to be doing anything but helping. )
Originally Posted By WorldDisney LOL, I just read RT response to me before saying he wrote his last response before writing his as I wrote the last response before I read his last response back to me. My head hurts ;D.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Come on, RoadTrip. You must be kidding at this point. Really, this stuff is obvious, blatant, and indefensible.>> As usual X, you are full of #2. I watched both of those clips, start to finish. Nowhere did it say Obama had any dealings with foreign terrorists. Nowhere did they make any subtle indication that Obama was Muslim, Arab, or might be sympathetic to either. They talked strictly about a man and his wife who they clearly identified as former American terrorists. They went on to say that the concern was not so much that these guys had been terrorists 30 years ago, but that Obama has not give a straight answer about his relationship with Ayers. You're stretching X. But then you always have.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***As usual X, you are full of #2.*** *I'm* full of crap? Whatever. Keep defending the indefensible for all I care. I know that you are dead wrong, but you are way too pigheaded to admit your indefensible "defense" of this garbage..so keep drinking the coolaid, pal.
