Originally Posted By juicer I don't really dislike GW - Its just a little to sterile for me. Its too bad they did'nt build a mall like the Grove up in LA. With that reatail mix of shops and restaurants it might work a lot better. There needs to be some reason for vacationers to go. There are some kind of nice restaurants and the bowling alley is great. But that is kind of it. I saw the food meal deal at Johnny Rockets (Burger, fries and drink for like $7) - I might make the treck for that (probably not). The parking needs to be free (for 5 hours?) with validation!
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "Across the courtyard, club-goers line up regularly to pay around $20 cover for the Heat Ultra Lounge, which sometimes draws celebrities, including Pamela Anderson and Tommy Lee." I wonder how much they're being paid to hang out there.
Originally Posted By Westsider A couple of guys that work Canoes also work at the 300 bowling alley. They say it's either boom or bust, heavy on the bust, and since it's not an alley that had ever planned to attract leagues they weren't expecting the boom/bust cycle. The manager over there is under a lot of pressure from the home office to turn it around fast. But then you have to wonder, who on earth thought tourists would go over to bowl at a trendy and expensive bowling alley on a Wednesday night when they could be at Disneyland riding Space Mountain? I also know a girl who works at Bar Louie as a waitress, and she says the exact same thing. It's boom or bust, heavy on the bust. But on a Saturday night when its not raining or cold, things are okay. The crowds waiting to get into Heat Ultra Lounge are a totally separate demographic than anyone who would go bowling or dine in the restaurants. They are profesional clubgoers who pull into the parking structure at 10:00PM and walk straight to the club to get in line and get inside by Midnight. They just spent three hours at home getting ready for the club and they sure as heck aren't going to ruin their hairdo or their makeup or their outfit by bowling or eating a greasy bar-burger in a casual pub. Heat Ultra Lounge is succesful, but it's in a totally sepearate universe from anything else in GardenWalk. The only thing GardenWalk gets from Heat customers is parking fees.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney You know, it sounded like they shouldve opened the hotels up with the mall first. Make it a little competitive giving discounts to the hotels to start up cost and then offering a range of discounts on the plaza like 10% at the restaurants, movies, bowling and etc. Build up an interest and get foot traffic there. Hell, the hotels couldve been nice for conventioners that wouldve been a nice change. Oh well.
Originally Posted By dshyates I was about to make the same point as WD, in that I believe that the key to AGWs success is based around it having 3 major hotels as part of the complex. And with the hotels that were planned the place would have been successful. They were going to have 2 Disney hotels. One very similar to The W. as an upscale contemporary, read hip trendy, hotel. With trendy Martini Bar and upscale restaurant. One Family Suites hotel. And a third party hotel of unknown/undetermined brand. But I do believe had they built the hotels AGW would be a much different place. I have to be suspicious about Disney actual intentions in the lengthy negotiations and stalling. It seems as if they may have actually been trying to sink the place. As they knew that the hotels are the key to the places success. Lord knows that guests visiting DLR would like to have some better nonDisney hotels nearby since for the most part the hotels on Harbour are lame.
Originally Posted By jmuboy I'm of the opinion the only two possibilities that will help "save" AGW are 1) Disney opening at least one branded hotel in the complex to keep a continual flow of guests in the area and 2) some sort of landscaped path leading from Harbor into the complex (with a large Marquee on Harbor to catch guests' eyes). Without these, and with the economy they way it is, I'm not sure AGW will last. I would like to see it succeed, just to give people something else within walking distance of the DL resort to pass the time.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "But then you have to wonder, who on earth thought tourists would go over to bowl at a trendy and expensive bowling alley on a Wednesday night when they could be at Disneyland riding Space Mountain?" Exactly.
Originally Posted By dshyates Some would say the same thing about the AMC Movie Theater in DtD. But I think just about anything would fly at AGW IF they had built the hotels.
Originally Posted By Disney Vault I have seen many movies at the DTD movie theater and am an out of towner. It is great for when you arrive at the reosrt but dont want to pay to get in the parks if it is later in the day. My family use to go to DL for 4 days and we never left the resort property the entire time until it was time to head back to the airport.
Originally Posted By ArchtMig >>>I have to be suspicious about Disney actual intentions in the lengthy negotiations and stalling. It seems as if they may have actually been trying to sink the place.<<< Well, maybe just to let the place sink to the point that it would be devalued enough that Disney would pull the trigger on buying the whole joint outright. That's my theory at least.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<Well, maybe just to let the place sink to the point that it would be devalued enough that Disney would pull the trigger on buying the whole joint outright. That's my theory at least.>> LOL! DtD west!
Originally Posted By xrayvision >>>I have to be suspicious about Disney actual intentions in the lengthy negotiations and stalling. It seems as if they may have actually been trying to sink the place.<<< Actually, you're suspicion has some plausibility. That's pretty much what Disney did to gain property for the DL resort expansion the 1990s (ala Grand Hotel, the mini golf course and several motor lodges that were located Harbor and on what is now Disney Way). Even Odetics and Marriott Residence Inn Anaheim Gate, which are also located in the same Disney Way pocket, were temporary targets of Disney's twisted attempts to gain land in Anaheim. But, those two companies didn't give into Disney's land games (including a Disney claim that Odetics and Residence Inn were contaminating the Anaheim water supply, thus demanding that their operations be investigated, fined and, moreover, shut down. If Disney's owned hotels are down in occupancy or are in anticipation of being lower, then I wouldn't put it beyond Disney to slow down or shut down the development of other hotels near their resort. Extending negotiation talks that slow down/stop new hotel construction costs Disney nothing and it protects their current hotels' economic interests.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt If Disney was so interested in sinking GW, why didn't they purchase the property before the GW developers bought it? It just doesn't seem likely to me that Disney is all that concerned about GW or the land it sits on.
Originally Posted By avro_imagineer ^^^ They would have had to pay "market value" for it, and would have had to pay to build the infrastructure. Now though that those costs have been paid, if they can get it for the right price. For example you might not be interested in a $100k Mercedes, but add a couple scuffs, the owner up a certain creek and a few hundred clicks, selling for 15k lock stock and barrel and maybe you're suddenly interested.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "They would have had to pay "market value" for it, and would have had to pay to build the infrastructure. Now though that those costs have been paid, if they can get it for the right price." But who is to say that Disney would have built something like GW if they'd purchased the site 10 years ago? Even if they had, I can't imagine that the company would have proposed something so spectacularly boring as what is there now. If they bought it now, what do they have to gain? A really dull and architecturally uninteresting shopping center. Nope, I just don't see the GW property (as it stands now) being of any interest to Disney.
Originally Posted By gadzuux >> If they bought it now, what do they have to gain? << A walkway - lined with food and beverage and retail - all the way from the esplanade to their new high capacity parking garage. And one day, to their third gate. This property could one day be indispensible for disney because it links their two land parcels as a land bridge, and provides for high end hotels in close proximity to the parks. It has more value for disney than for anybody else.
Originally Posted By dshyates They could put covered, over the road walkways from the new parking garage right to the mouth o AGW and then across Harbour funneling all the traffic through there. Add 2-3 new Disney Hotels there and Voila instant doubling of te resort complex without having to build it. If AGW goes belly up they can get the prebuilt complex for LESS than the empty land would have cost.
Originally Posted By Grumpy Pete If disney did end up with AGW, I could see them gutting it and redoing it according to their own desires.
