Originally Posted By utahjosh I seriously was looking everywhere for my keys this morning. I was going to be late for work. I finally knelt down and said a prayer asking for help. As I walked down the stairs, an image of the keys on a certain chair popped in my brain. Walked right over and picked them up. Said a prayer of gratitude.
Originally Posted By Ursula ^ so you don't think that maybe you just remembered where you put them last? Wouldn't God be a bit upset you wasted his time looking for keys, anyway? You couldn't have used that one in for say, World Peace, or something more worthwhile than your keys?
Originally Posted By RockyMtnMinnie I think God would be relieved with the prayer for lost keys. At least that's one he could do. People keep praying and praying for world peace and it hasn't happened. Thats got to affect God's self esteem sometimes; make him feel a little ineffective. Throw the guy an easy one every now and then.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <^ so you don't think that maybe you just remembered where you put them last?> Nope. I tried doing that on my own for a while, to no avail. Wasn't until after I prayed that I found them. Plus, I wasn't the one who put them there, so I couldn't have "remembered" it. <Wouldn't God be a bit upset you wasted his time looking for keys, anyway?> Heck no! I'm sure He's glad I thought of asking for His help. He is my Father, after all. Yours, too. <You couldn't have used that one in for say, World Peace, or something more worthwhile than your keys?> I keep asking for that one. Hasn't been answered as quickly as I'd like. All in God's time, I guess. And my keys were plenty worthwhile to me this morning.
Originally Posted By Ursula Maybe that's why we don't have world peace? He's been spending too much time looking for keys. (and I don't think He's my father. Besides, if I called my dad asking for my keys, he'd probably laugh at me and then loan me his car.)
Originally Posted By utahjosh Nah, the lack of world peace i put on selfish world leaders, misunderstandings, pride, and a whole lot of other things.
Originally Posted By RockyMtnMinnie So has there been an increase in reports of missing people today? So far everyone I know is accounted for. Hmmmmm, any LP posters missing today?
Originally Posted By utahjosh I'm beginning to think today isn't the day. I don't think the end of times will happen exactly like that, anyway
Originally Posted By mawnck >>I don't think the end of times will happen exactly like that, anyway << Best. Smiley. Ever.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Nah, the lack of world peace i put on selfish world leaders, misunderstandings, pride, and a whole lot of other things. Good ol' agency of man.*** So who would be blamed if your prayer for lost keys had gone unanswered and you were thus late for work?
Originally Posted By utahjosh <So who would be blamed if your prayer for lost keys had gone unanswered and you were thus late for work?> There isn't a single answer for that. Could be me, for lack of faith in God. Could be God, because for some reason I should have been late for work, possibly to avoid an accident or something. Fun to think about.
Originally Posted By Mr X What's fun to think about is how whenever something goes right all thanks go to God, but when things are bad it's man's fault, or the Devil made em do it or whatever. I hardly think that God is so petty that he'd do a faith screening everytime someone asks him for help finding keys (but it does make ya feel really righteous though, doesn't it Josh?), but that's just me.
Originally Posted By mawnck Thank you, God, for this case of the giggles that UtahJosh just gave me. It has brightened my afternoon.
Originally Posted By magnet I'm back and want to briefly revisit my original discussion with X. *>>Why would learning new things be irrational?<<* No, that's not what I said. I'm trying to get you to think about the inner motivation that drives discovery. Let me frame it this way.... Let's say that somebody spends their entire career searching for a cure for cancer. We know the disease exists, and there are definitely people who aspire to defeat the disease. So, the question is: is it irrational to believe that cancer can be cured? If you spend your life trying to understand cancer, then you must either believe a cure exists or that some strides can be made to weaken it. There is, however, no logical reasoning that can prove that a cure exists. So, again, is it irrational to believe in a cure? Well, if you're going to insist on strict physical evidence and reasoning - you're going to give up on a cure and reject it. You might still consider it a lofty pursuit, but the chance of getting there would seem remote, even though it can't be ruled out. Yet if you still get up everyday and go to work on it, you believe in a cure, at least you do somewhere on the inside even if you would openly deny it. So, if you spend your life looking for something you can't prove exists - are you really much different from someone who spends their entire life looking for God and believing that He exists? The pursuit of science is to build a body of knowledge about the universe that is complete. However, the religion of science is that there is no question too big to answer. So, in reality, it actually takes a leap of faith to continue piecing together this body of knowledge about the world. It's not irrational to do it - of course not (because knowing something is obviously better than knowing nothing). However, the inner drive that pushes us to do it does not have its foundation in physical evidence and rational logic. So, it's faith that drives the advancement of science. So, the point is this: You can't live life without some measure of faith in something, no matter how small it might seem. It's just not possible. If you had no faith at all, it would be a struggle to get out of bed in the morning, and you would be continually gripped by fear at every turn. If you turn to science, your faith is in science. Science is your God. It's no different. You can't mock faith without being a hypocrite in some measure.
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 Bye all, the rapture has occurred, they are taking me away..... Nevermind, it's just the police....
Originally Posted By Mr X ***There is, however, no logical reasoning that can prove that a cure exists.*** You keep saying this, but you're 100% wrong (in fact, I think you're missing the point of science vs. religion entirely). There are PLENTY of logical reasons to believe a cure can be found. There are medical records of past successes with various diseases, there are mountains of scientific papers filled with information about the disease and related illnesses, what treatments do and don't work and what percentages they amount to, volumes of info on research that lead to other successful medicines, oceans of doctor/patient evidence, facts, information, and analytical backup materials. ***So, again, is it irrational to believe in a cure?*** No.
Originally Posted By magnet *>>There are PLENTY of logical reasons to believe a cure can be found<<* No, these things just make it easier for you to believe in it. It's still not proof. It just appeals to someone inclined to believe that our pursuit of knowledge will eventually reveal an answer. It's not much different than people finding evidence in nature for God's existence or pointing to historical record in the Bible.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***So, if you spend your life looking for something you can't prove exists - are you really much different from someone who spends their entire life looking for God and believing that He exists?*** See now, here's where you go off the rails. First of all, this is not what organized religion does. They don't "search" for answers, they claim to HAVE all the answers, right down to exactly what "god" wants from us and what we need to do to please him. Talk about arrogance. If you were to bring up a scientist who hypothesises that there is a god and then goes about trying to find corroberating evidence, THAT I could appreciate in terms of this argument. But no, I don't have to have "faith" that the sun probably won't fall down upon the Earth today and I don't need to make up some story about a chariot god who holds it up there because we have a body of Scientific knowledge that explains things. Sure, there could be some missing info, but if so I'd be happy to hear about it and I wouldn't be defensive or reject it just because it was new info or "insulted" my previous understanding either. Big difference between that and religion.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***It's not much different than people finding evidence in nature for God's existence or pointing to historical record in the Bible.*** Good Lord man, it's ENTIRELY different. There is NO evidence in nature that some god exists, NONE. That some people say "those clouds are so pretty and trees are gorgeous so there MUST be a creator!" is not evidence, it's just their feeling (a good counter-argument might be that I find such things attractive and therefore Martians must have made them because Mars is so ugly). And pointing to the Bible as a "historical record" is silly, it's a religious text...there are tons out there and none of them, NONE of them offer up anything more than morality tales the way they were viewed a long time ago. They aren't history books.
