Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt Agreed. Mostly I'm reacting to your firm agreement with his alcohol policy at Disneyland. Clearly he was off the mark there. What "rough element" has shown up at the gates of DCA, or any other Disney park that sells it, and caused a ruckus?
Originally Posted By Terminus I saw a couple pictures of some people associating with that Duffy guy. Talk about a drunkin' ruckus!
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost The theme of MK in both DL and WDW is in it's name. Magic Kingdom! You can get away with it in Epcot or AK or DCA and even DHS because the name doesn't imply an escape from the world of reality. The first thing that would break the magic is having some loud mouth drunk spitting his/her wisdom all over the place. I am not against drinking, I have done my share, but, if you cannot go a few hours without alcohol it may be pointing to a much deeper problem. Magic Kingdom is not the place to be scraping up beer vomit. Bourbon Street in New Orleans, now that is the place for that. In fact if you ever go there you can smell stale beer and vomit 24/7.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>While he may not have been right about everything (no one is), he absolutely hit it out of the park with Disneyland. No pun intended. It was an amazing streak of constitutionally making the right choices.<< Oy vey. PLEASE go read some history of Disneyland!
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>Mostly I'm reacting to your firm agreement with his alcohol policy at Disneyland.<< I can see why he didn't want the place to become filled with obnoxious drunks -- and back in the early Disneyland era, I think people drank a little harder (Mad Men isn't all that far off). So I can see his reluctance about having booze available. But at this point, between Downtown Disney and DCA, there are plenty of places to get a drink. I don't see what the harm would be in being able to order a glass of wine with dinner at the Blue Bayou. I thought it was interesting -- and sad -- that even back then, Disney had to worry about child molesters showing up at the park. That wasn't something that was usually talked about very openly back then, and I can't imagine a current Disney PR person alluding to it except indirectly and in terms of overall guest safety.
Originally Posted By CuriousConstance Even if drinkers wouldn't have been a problem then, like they aren't now, the average person going to DL may have had a much less relaxed opinion about alcohol and it's availability at DL than todays average visitor . He might have just been going for the wholesome image as to not offend his core customer base.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "The theme of MK in both DL and WDW is in it's name. Magic Kingdom! You can get away with it in Epcot or AK or DCA and even DHS because the name doesn't imply an escape from the world of reality. The first thing that would break the magic is having some loud mouth drunk spitting his/her wisdom all over the place." It seems to work just fine at Disneyland Paris. By the way, I've seen a fair number of loud mouth obnoxious people at inside DL who were not even close to being drunk. "Magic Kingdom is not the place to be scraping up beer vomit." Well neither is DCA or EPCOT. The main point here is that Walt Disney was wrong about the type of people adult beverages would attract. His view may have made sense in the 50s, but today the notion that beer and wine shouldn't be served inside Disneyland is completely out of step with modern society.
Originally Posted By Yookeroo "You know Walt wasn't right about everything." That's it. You're out of the cult. Forgive him Walt, for he knows not what he says. "The first thing that would break the magic is having some loud mouth drunk spitting his/her wisdom all over the place." Like keeps happening at DCA & Epcot & Animal Kingdom & Disneyland Paris? "I am not against drinking, I have done my share, but, if you cannot go a few hours without alcohol it may be pointing to a much deeper problem." Nowhere has anyone even implied that they can't go a few hours without alcohol. Nice straw man. "I can see why he didn't want the place to become filled with obnoxious drunks -- and back in the early Disneyland era, I think people drank a little harder (Mad Men isn't all that far off). So I can see his reluctance about having booze available." You mean it's possible that it was the right idea at the time (maybe), but times have changed? *gasp* It's pretty clear that Walt's fears are pretty groundless at this point. Not allowing alcohol sales is pretty much an irrational fear. Well, maybe a fear of a backlash from the cult isn't all that irrational, but the blind faith the cult has in Walt on this subject is. "But at this point, between Downtown Disney and DCA, there are plenty of places to get a drink. I don't see what the harm would be in being able to order a glass of wine with dinner at the Blue Bayou." Frankly, it's pretty ridiculous that you can't. You can get alcohol everywhere in the resort except this one place. And it's trivial to go have a drink if you want one....or sneak something in. It's a ban that accomplishes nothing.
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: I have to disagree with you, Dr. Hans, dear. It's still very much in step to NOT have alcoholic beverages sold at Disneyland. It's much too wholesome a place for that sort of thing. You don't mess around with what works. ORWEN: Right. The last thing you'd want is to have a certain nasty old biddy walking around Disneyland with a hangover or in a drunken stuper. What kind of example is that for little ducklings? I say keep the booze out of Disneyland forever. ORGOCH: An' I says keep the two losers like yerselves outta the park fer good!!!
Originally Posted By SafariRob We'll have to agree to disagree on the alcohol policy. I found it interesting how relevant his interviews were even today. The 1950's and 60's issues were the same as they are today: ticket prices, crowd control, broken show elements and (gasp) alcohol in the parks. Times have changed but the park faces the same challenges.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt I'm baffled by the whole "drunken stupor" thing. How often do you see people stumbling around completely intoxicated in a Disney park where alcohol is available? Some of you sound irrationally paranoid. "Times have changed but the park faces the same challenges." I wonder how many disabled employees Walt hired, or black, Asian or Latino employees worked as cast members on opening day. How about banned facial hair for male cast members and gender specific host duties that were commonplace at Disneyland as recently as the 90s? Does anyone else remember when men wearing long hair were turned away at the gate and same sex dancing was cause for being ejected from the park? Not only has culture changed, Disneyland has changed and adapted too.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>How often do you see people stumbling around completely intoxicated in a Disney park where alcohol is available?<< Some of the geese in America Sings were completely sloshed. Could barely make it through a performance. Disgusting. But seriously, I think plenty of people can have a drink with dinner or a couple of beers or margaritas while walking around DL and not go completely nuts.
Originally Posted By SafariRob "How often do you see people stumbling around completely intoxicated in a Disney park where alcohol is available? Some of you sound irrationally paranoid." LOL, Hans. You're right that it's not really a problem. Most people behave responsibly in the parks. Personally, I would argue that it is partly due to the family-friendly culture that Walt created by insisting on such rules. I think Walt's intention was to keep Disneyland a family-friendly place and he didn't think selling alcohol in the parks would...shall we say, enhance the guest experience. "I wonder how many disabled employees Walt hired, or black, Asian or Latino employees worked as cast members on opening day." No idea. I wonder how many applied. "How about banned facial hair for male cast members and gender specific host duties that were commonplace at Disneyland as recently as the 90s?" Well, that's casting people for the part. I don't really see the harm in that. "Does anyone else remember when men wearing long hair were turned away at the gate..." Wasn't that because of the 1970 hippie take-over of Disneyland? I don't think it started before then and it didn't last very long. "...and same sex dancing was cause for being ejected from the park?" On this one, I agree that Disney needed to change with the times.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "I think Walt's intention was to keep Disneyland a family-friendly place and he didn't think selling alcohol in the parks would...shall we say, enhance the guest experience." Oh. I didn't know that Disneyland Paris, EPCOT, DCA and the Disneyland Hotel weren't "family friendly". "Well, that's casting people for the part. I don't really see the harm in that." Well in that case shouldn't the cast members working Pirates be allowed to wear full beards, mustaches, and long hair? "Wasn't that because of the 1970 hippie take-over of Disneyland?" Nope. According to Snopes, "Up until the late 1960s, long haired visitors to Disneyland were stopped at the park gates by cast members who politely informed hirsute guests that they did not meet the standards of Disneyland's ("unwritten") dress code and therefore would not be allowed to enter the park".
Originally Posted By Yookeroo "The 1950's and 60's issues were the same as they are today: ticket prices, crowd control, broken show elements and (gasp) alcohol in the parks." But the alcohol issues aren't the same. Or Walt was wrong. "I think Walt's intention was to keep Disneyland a family-friendly place and he didn't think selling alcohol in the parks would...shall we say, enhance the guest experience." And yet, the parks that do sell alcohol are family friendly. Walt was wrong. Clearly.
Originally Posted By SafariRob Dress codes! That's why everyone looks so nice in the old photographs. As always, you bring up some excellent points and I really enjoy the debate. Look, I wasn't around back then and I don't pretend to have access to Walt's cryogenically frozen brain. He wanted a clean-cut, family-friendly and safe environment. Maybe the hippie ban was an attempt to prevent drug use inside the park. I have no idea. I have not been to DLP, but I can say that EPCOT and DCA are very family-friendly...with the alcohol. My preference would be for them NOT to sell it, but that's me. I think we need to agree to disagree on this one. "Well in that case shouldn't the cast members working Pirates be allowed to wear full beards, mustaches, and long hair?" No, they can wear fake ones! LOL.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "As always, you bring up some excellent points and I really enjoy the debate." Thanks SafariRob. I enjoy discussing with you too. In the end what does it matter really? It's just our opinions anyway.
