Originally Posted By vbdad55 Not if he gets to the point where those loyal 1-2 sit downs per day with a party of 8-10 start to go elsewhere because the price points are outrageous. And don't forget that likely includes a lot of DVC owners (140,000 families now)- where the DDP means crap from a price of vacation - room-food comes together. We dropped close to $5K on eating this last trip ( party of 9 ) - and for the first time ever we are questioning the cost of some of the dinner buffets etc.
Originally Posted By hopemax > I remember the early incarnation of the DDP, but I don't remember it including the dessert. Appetizer and tip - yeah, but not dessert. < <a href="http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1023429" target="_blank">http://www.disboards.com/showt...=1023429</a>
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Not if he gets to the point where those loyal 1-2 sit downs per day with a party of 8-10 start to go elsewhere because the price points are outrageous. And don't forget that likely includes a lot of DVC owners (140,000 families now)- where the DDP means crap from a price of vacation - room-food comes together. We dropped close to $5K on eating this last trip ( party of 9 ) - and for the first time ever we are questioning the cost of some of the dinner buffets etc. << I really don't see the Mouse slacking up VBDAD. He feels immortal now I believe. I thought it was the heighth of arrogance when he decided to make The Le Cellier a signature restaurant because it was so popular. Now he can wing ya for 2 table credits. Mickey feels like he can just about do what he wants with the food at WDW. So far everybody still seems to be buying into it.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> > I remember the early incarnation of the DDP, but I don't remember it including the dessert. Appetizer and tip - yeah, but not dessert. < <a href="http://www.disboards.com/showt...=1023429" target="_blank">http://www.disboards.com/showt...=1023429</a> << Thanks for digging that up out of the archives hopemax. When I first saw what was offered with an apetizer, a entree, and a dessert, and included the tip. I thought that was a lot of food for one person to eat. I knew my wife, and I would never eat that much. We normally just have a small snack, and one large meal a day with just the entree. When you look at a mediocre place like the San Angel Inn, and see the entree alone can cost $33.00 you say, " GOLLY GEE, that there Disney Dining Plan sure nuff is a GREAT DEAL. ".
Originally Posted By dshyates "Reasonable Expectations", isn't that Bob Iger's autobiography written in the style of Charles Dickens?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<After seeing a thread on another board and visiting the parks this week an interesting thoughts been raised and wanted to know if my thoughts were similar to everyone else... Anyway- In going to a theme park (particularly WDW) what is your reasonable expectations towards your visit? What do you think should be "mandatory" what is "nice to have" what is "icing on the cake">> Great thread, first (even if you didn't return a call!;-) ) MANDATORY: Safe; Clean; Caring/Quality CMs; High level of upkeep; show quality kept up to highest standards; Buildings kept cold (this is FLA after all); Quality food options; Value for the money spent; NICE TO HAVE: Lots of live entertainment; quality merchandise and shopping opps; freshness in the product (i.e. no films from the 1980s playing in 2010); late night hours; a cast that deals with boorish guests appropriately and doesn't let them do whatever they please; ICING ON THE CAKE: Everything else, really. <<Parking? All booths open? Being directed to park? Trams?>> I can't recall the last time I parked at MK's main lot. It's been decades. I usually avoid EPCOT's. But I do park at the other two fairly regularly and EPCOT every once in a while. It sure seems like parking ain't what it used to be. Trams don't operate all the time, apparently. Lots also have gotten quite shabby before being repaved. Don't recall having any significant waits at booths in years. So, overall, I guess they are doing a decent job. <<Overall park? Cleanliness? Rehabs? Staff?>> Cleanliness is a must. Restrooms have really fallen at WDW. Visiting the brand new $750,000 Adventureland facilities in May, I couldn't believe how many machines were out of paper towels (which should be eliminated anwyay) on a relatively uncrowded day in early afternoon. Trash shouldn't be left on the ground and pavement needs to be pressure-cleaned nightly, which stopped long ago (at least on a park-wide basis). Rehabs should be done regularly. Like they are in every other Disney resort worldwide. Show quality is a key. Attractions like EE, CTX, Fantasmic (and until recently Mansion and Space Mtn) shouldn't be allowed to fall into disrepair under some misguided PR line about being afraid of disappointing guests by closing them. That's just assinine. Staffing should be up to demand and then some. You're paying a premium to visit WDW, so it's perfectly acceptable for them to overstaff by 5-15% daily. Nothing wrong with having cast around just to greet guests and answer questions and give tips ... you know, like in the good, old days. I also don't want any 'tude from CMs either. I well understand that Disney isn't a great place to work for many people. I feel for those who wish they could work elsewhere and have to deal with truly obnoxious guests, but can't because jobs don't exist. BUT ... you have a job to do and you do it with pride and caring and at the very least you fake enjoying it because that's part of the show. <<Attractions? Ride Capacity for non fixed capacity rides? (i.e how many coaster cars, jungle boats in operation per day) Fast Pass (Mandatory or just a perk) Reduced operating hours?>> I don't believe you have to run maximum capacity on say ... today. You have to look at the time of year, resort load levels, traditional crowds ... but when you are crowded and you have an hour wait for an attraction that could be 20 minutes if you added capacity, you do it. FP is a subject I barely want to tackle. In my two days at DL/DCA, I got a FP once (for Indy) and it wasn't even really needed. When waits aren't even an hour for the most popular attractions, I think the system should be shut down because it causes more headaches at that point. I know that may not be a popular choice. Of course, I also love single rider lines, which WDW doesn't quite get the hang of (although it's improving). Last week, when Splash Mountain (at DL for those not following my Spirited travels) had a 60-minute posted wait, I went four times in a row and rode Pooh and checked out his gift shop in the time it would have taken for one stand by. Reduced operating hours bother me if you're talking about staggered openings and closings. Walt always wanted everything that could be open, to be open. I hate picking up those paper weekly schedules and having to check what time HoP or CoP close. That's just bad show. I don't have an issue with seasonal closings, though, much like closings for rehabs. <<Characters/Shows? Availability/ Frequency? i.e is it "okay" to have less showings/no showings on some days?>> Characters? You think I go to WDW for foamheads? The only characters I am interested in are friends and family! Now ... I would like to see more live entertainment like you see at EPCOT and the streetmosphere at TPFKaTD-MGMS. <<Food? Availability? Is it "okay" to have less stands/lines open (and potentially less choices) >> How about having realistic price points for people not on the DDP? And less choice? How could there be any less? <<If you go on a less crowded time is it reasonable to expect a potentially less experience than if you went at peak time despite paying the same?>> Yes, it absolutely is. Someone visiting in September should not expect the same as someone visiting in April, July or December for example. And generally, people pay less for other things (like hotel) in off-peak times, although the ticket price remains constant. <<Is it reasonable to be "forced" into longer waits due to reduced ride capacity (i.e running 2 'rails and not 3 or 4, using 10 boats instead of 15)>> To some extent, yes. There is a tipping point, though. And you only know it when you experience it. <<Is anything not being available a vacation "killer" like no Fast Pass? or Parking Trams? or Specific Shows?>> Only when I can't see my favorite CMs! <<Thoughts?>> I got plenty of them. But that's a start. And do I see old tiara-wearing, cross-dressing VBDAD defending da DDP? ~That's crazy!~
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I've had a theory all along with the DDP, and it is just a theory since there is no way I can prove it. It's the classic bait, and switch, with a new wrinkle. You put the initial program out there, and get people use to it. You then start eliminating things from the plan. All the time you slowly increase the price of food, while making all menus more generic. You emphasize the need to make Advanced Reservations now. It's no longer Priority Seating. The restaurants fill up with people trying to use up their table credits. You even get spill over into restaurants that aren't popular because you have to eat somewhere. The real topper is that big smile Mickey has on his face when you leave, and still have unused credits on your card. Food is going to become so expensive that you will be forced to purchase the DDP TO SAVE MONEY. That is if you want to eat on property. The Mouse is very smart.>> That theory is very close to scientific fact ... kind of like the Earth is round. It's funny, though. Dining was once one of the big parts of my visits. Not so anymore ... but I did take advantage of the 'free' dining twice ... back when you got the whole deal appetizer, entree, dessert, beverage and gratuity ... and there was no 'tiered' system ... meaning I could stay at Pop Century and get my free meals at Narcoosee's and California Grill and Le Cellier etc. Now, I hardly dine at WDW owned and operated locations at all unless I am going with a CM friend and the discount is significant ... 20% doesn't cut it with me anymore since the prices have risen so dramatically. ~The era of the $40 entree is over~
Originally Posted By danyoung Thanks for that link, hopemax. I see that was the plan for 1996. I'm guessing I probably did the ddp in 1997, as I know that dessert was not included at that time - just appetizer, meal, non alcoholic drink and tip. And it was the next year that they cut the appetizer and tip and put the dessert back in.
Originally Posted By Mickeymouseclub I also miss the days of "steam-cleaning" the sidewalks. i assume the heat caused problems with concrete and caulking in the tiled areas. So now we are lucky to have them washed down occasionally.Since we all seem to want cleanliness at Disney Resorts I would like to ask if Disney reps could come to your homes and check out your restrooms closets and carpeting with that white glove or pair of socks TEST! A huge problem with cleanliness and maintenance (in my personal opinion) is the attitude of guests As if the housekeeping is a personal maid in a hotel room or fast service guests that can not quickly remove their personal food waste or empty drink containers from a table or can't even check that the toilet actually flushed and removed your personal creation. As I have said before Disney would have to assign a personal castmember to follow every guest around all day and night to keep up with the overwhelming job at Disney resorts! For some reason people can not factor in that the less we want to be personally responsible in society the more costs will increase for our pleasures! Not meaning to be rude but it seems to be as easy as 1plus1=2.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss I haven't read much of the thread yet, but I expect "perfect" cleanliness, "perfect" show i.e nothing onstage broken or run down, a well-trained CM corps, and everything open, barring rehabs.
Originally Posted By hopemax > Thanks for that link, hopemax. I see that was the plan for 1996. I'm guessing I probably did the ddp in 1997, as I know that dessert was not included at that time - just appetizer, meal, non alcoholic drink and tip. And it was the next year that they cut the appetizer and tip and put the dessert back in. < No, 2007 still included dessert and appetizer. Here is an archived link to the 2007 plan <a href="http://web.archive.org/web/20061114063747/www.mousesavers.com/mywplusdining2007.html" target="_blank">http://web.archive.org/web/200...007.html</a> 2008, was when the major changes came. The tip was no longer included. And no appetizer. They also introduced the Deluxe plan. Another archive link <a href="http://web.archive.org/web/20080723112556/www.mousesavers.com/mywplusdining2008.html" target="_blank">http://web.archive.org/web/200...008.html</a> 2009 - introduction of quick service plan, but no changes (except price) to the standard plan.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 I got plenty of them. But that's a start. And do I see old tiara-wearing, cross-dressing VBDAD defending da DDP? ~That's crazy!~ ---- gotta read a little closer- no way defending it ..would love to see it gone. I udnersand why they offer it marketing wise, but agree it is killing price points. Also think it sucks for CM's to not have 18% guaranteed like they do for Tables in WOnderland..
Originally Posted By Mickeymouseclub Still thinking about those overflowing trash cans...and the real cost...for example...I would guess that the most frequent disposed item would be the drink cups. So would it be more cost efficient and ecologically responsible for Disney to consider offering a discount to guests that bring their own refillable mugs? Not free refills but discounts. I realize they can not do this at all locations due to health regulations but it would be a small mininal solution. It just seems like the disposable cups are the most frequent item I notice overflowing everywhere! Anybody else have some thoughts that are more constructive?
Originally Posted By danyoung hopemax, you're just trying to make me feel old and doddering (and you're succeeding, too!). Maybe I remember the plan with no dessert cuz I rarely eat dessert. Ah well, we all can agree that it was better then than it is now!
Originally Posted By Labuda "I would expect a late night ADULT oriented entertainment area. Like they use to have." Excellent point that I missed in my post. I SO miss the Adventurer's Club and Comedy Warehouse. Love, love, LOVE those places! Pardon me while I go drown my sorrows in a Coke.
Originally Posted By Labuda "I remember the early incarnation of the DDP, but I don't remember it including the dessert. Appetizer and tip - yeah, but not dessert." It included dessert the first 2 or 3 times I used it - back in the 04-05 era.
Originally Posted By danyoung I've since been proven to have a faulty memory. Geez, it sucks to be getting older!!!
Originally Posted By MPierce >> I also miss the days of "steam-cleaning" the sidewalks. i assume the heat caused problems with concrete and caulking in the tiled areas. So now we are lucky to have them washed down occasionally.Since we all seem to want cleanliness at Disney Resorts I would like to ask if Disney reps could come to your homes and check out your restrooms closets and carpeting with that white glove or pair of socks TEST! A huge problem with cleanliness and maintenance (in my personal opinion) is the attitude of guests As if the housekeeping is a personal maid in a hotel room or fast service guests that can not quickly remove their personal food waste or empty drink containers from a table or can't even check that the toilet actually flushed and removed your personal creation. As I have said before Disney would have to assign a personal castmember to follow every guest around all day and night to keep up with the overwhelming job at Disney resorts! For some reason people can not factor in that the less we want to be personally responsible in society the more costs will increase for our pleasures! Not meaning to be rude but it seems to be as easy as 1plus1=2. << So you are saying you do not expect a superior product when paying a superior price for it? Does that mean you are OK with dirty bathrooms, and dirty sidewalks, and litter blowing around on the ground? Do you think Disney is no longer capable of living up to the standards that they set for themselves, so we should all give them a pass? If someone throws litter in my yard I pick it up the minute I see it. Shouldn't the Mouse be just as concerned. If you would like to come over, and inspect my bathrooms you are more than welcome to. I happen to take a little pride in how I live. Anyone using the facilities at my house will be pleased with how they are maintained. By the way. I will not be charging a hugh amount of money for entrance either.
Originally Posted By Mickeymouseclub I expected that response...you paid a high price for everything in your house. Nothing is free. Don't you wish strangers would a little more considerate and personally responsible when they have left litter in your front yard?
