Originally Posted By -em >> It's just that the volume increases incrementally due to the 'free' nature of the program- correct? << Correct and the ratios of people dining at TS vs QSR changes which is the other problem. For most 'average' families (non DDP) in a course of their vacation how many table service restaurants do they hit? Most will hit 1 or 2 but few do a table service each day. DDP particularly the "free" DDP change that ratio which means demand shoots up and there isnt enough table seats to accommodate people as they wish to be accommodated (i.e prime dinner times, locations etc) which is why you see places like Noodle Station pop up as a table service restaurant (or Chef Mickey's open for lunch) to have a place for people to use credits but you don't see too much an influx for quick service.. Because to a lot of guests that is what they are used to eating and will forgo those options... >>I do like Destructive Dining Program as explanation for acronym -- it is appropriate<< Agreed. I noticed when I was at the MK last week that the ice cream shop had reduced their menu offerings (not flavors) to 4 items. The sundae, the (2 scoop) cone, kids cone and float. Gone most noticeably is the 1 scoop cone. I assume there is still a button so that you can order it but that requires knowledge of the existence of the option. So I wonder if the reduction is due to guest's natural preference (i.e. 90% of guests ordered those 4 items) or a way to up sell without conciseness thought (kind of like the burger options being double burgers) where if you don't want the "kids version" you are "stuck" with a higher priced option where you may really just want the single cone? I think I know the answer to that question but it's still an interesting thought that could be had towards the rest of the food offerings. Do people really only order X items that the best business model is to only offer those items? Or is it just another way to cut corners when if you offered 15 items and guests ordered pretty equal percentages of those items which potentially means higher cost of goods? Food for thought- -em
Originally Posted By Fe Maiden ^^^We haven't used DDP on our last two trips and always book early. I can honestly say I don't feel we were treated any differently not being on DDP. We even tried to make a last minute ressie change in August of last year in the beginning of the free dining period and Disney was able to accomodate us. <<I wonder how much money Disney makes on unfulfilled DDP meals-- people who can't get seat, or eat counter service instead because they don't know to book way ahead and get shut out?>> It's probably where they generate the most profit from the plan. On our trip last August we were having lunch at Kona and a gentleman came over and asked if we were on the DDP. I told him we used to but we actually prefer not having the plan. As a result he and his wife were getting ready to leave and wanted us to have desserts on them. It was a part of the plan, but it was just too much food for them. While we were talking he told us that they were heading home the next day and still had 6 TS meals, 10 CS meals, and who knows how many snacks leftover. They were all going to be unused.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 For most 'average' families (non DDP) in a course of their vacation how many table service restaurants do they hit? Most will hit 1 or 2 but few do a table service each day ------ guess that's why we are NOT average- we do 1-2 sit downs per day - average about 12 in 8 day stay...we look at it as we did not travel 1200 miles to eat hamburgers ( and not good ones- LOL !) ..but that is our largest expense each trip.. we do very little interms of souveneirs now..we eat/drink our way thru some great restaurants/experiences
Originally Posted By danyoung >A sitdown meal experience in the Magic Kingdom and Disney's Hollywood Studios parks should not be exclusive to those participating in the DDP only, because they made resevations 120 days out.< It should be noted that making advance reservations has absolutely nothing to do with the DDP. Everyone has the same chances - 180 days out. Staying on property gets you an additional 10 days of booking, but even if you stay off property you can still call 180 days ahead of each day of your stay and book pretty much what you want.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 the 'extra' 10 days still means 180 days from the first day of your visit however correct? You can't call 190 days out unless I am negligent here which would be good to know.
Originally Posted By -em >>the 'extra' 10 days still means 180 days from the first day of your visit however correct?<< Correct. You can book 10 days of res on your first day of "availability" (i.e. 181-190 days out) wheras others would have to either call 180 days out on their last day (and book for whole vacation) or call daily when each day hits the 180 mark... -em
Originally Posted By danyoung Use this site to calulate your perfect date to book - <a href="http://pscalculator.net/pscalc.php" target="_blank">http://pscalculator.net/pscalc.php</a>
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>That is no longer the case. And when Disney allows one guest mess to sit, it gives a subtle but loud message to others that they too can trash the place. Walt and his immediate successors understood this. The current WDC mindset doesn't seem to care (although DL and DCA were damn near perfect as far as cleanliness on my recent visit).<<< Well, yeah, it's DL. They have park cleanliness, down, there. Our parks are the ones left in the dust...literally.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>>And anyone not participating in the DDP is treated like an unwelcome guest.< Sorry, but this just isn't true. I don't do the DDP, and I'm treated very nicely at TS restaurants, thank you.<<< Can't say I agree...I've felt snubbed by the waiter before when we said we weren't on the DP. Same with the CM who couldn't get over the fact that I was a Disney Fan, and not in D23...
Originally Posted By MousDad >>Same with the CM who couldn't get over the fact that I was a Disney Fan, and not in D23...<< Oh, I would have liked to have been a fly on the wall to that conversation.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>Oh, I would have liked to have been a fly on the wall to that conversation.<<< It was hysterical. Pecos Bills will never be the same for me. LOL.
Originally Posted By danyoung >Can't say I agree...I've felt snubbed by the waiter before when we said we weren't on the DP.< Based on my experience, you just had a bad waiter. They're an idiot to snub you in a situation where their tip is now back in your hands and not an automatic thing. If I were a waiter I'd be falling over backwards to please the NON-DDP guest, knowing that my tip depended on that good service.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer ^ It's happened more than once, they suddenly seem a bit less animated, but they are attentive, non the less.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> I've since been proven to have a faulty memory. Geez, it sucks to be getting older!!! << <<It gets worse, believe me Dan!>> >> Believe him, Dan. The guy could pass for 102 ... on a good day! << And that's wearing makeup.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Very well said (must have been one of your lucid moments!) ... seriously, the old 'guests are pigs, so don't blame The Mouse' argument holds little sway with me. << they are becoming fewer, and farther between.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Yes. But it has made dining even more profittable for Disney. They get paid in advance. Many folks leave with loads of meals that were pre-paid but not used. Disney can streamline menus. Disney can use less labor by staffing based on DDP patterns more than traditional crowds (hence, seeing a restaurant booked while half the tables are empty) << Good point on the staffing issues that I completely overlooked. >> I think it's terrible for many guests, but it's obviously working for The Mouse. The reason EPCOT is getting two new (one reworked) WS dining locales isn't because Disney wants to keep the park fresh, but because of the money it is making on food and beverage (and these locations are third parties, so I wonder how much $$$ Disney even spent on them). << Absolutely, and what I really don't get is that some people in Disney forums act as if these new restaurants are the equivalent of new attractions.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> p.s. you know the actor in the ad was Italian, not native american....not trying to take away from a great campaign, just some trivia << I'm glad I read your next post as I was fixing to mention that. Hooray for Hollywood!
Originally Posted By MPierce >> ^^^^ really glad I have never been there during free DDP time...and don't ever plan to now. See there is some advantage to going in August when it's blazing hot. << Trouble is it's nearly free dining year round now.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> It's just that the volume increases incrementally due to the 'free' nature of the program- correct? << >> Correct and the ratios of people dining at TS vs QSR changes which is the other problem. For most 'average' families (non DDP) in a course of their vacation how many table service restaurants do they hit? Most will hit 1 or 2 but few do a table service each day. DDP particularly the "free" DDP change that ratio which means demand shoots up and there isnt enough table seats to accommodate people as they wish to be accommodated (i.e prime dinner times, locations etc) which is why you see places like Noodle Station pop up as a table service restaurant (or Chef Mickey's open for lunch) to have a place for people to use credits but you don't see too much an influx for quick service.. Because to a lot of guests that is what they are used to eating and will forgo those options... >>I do like Destructive Dining Program as explanation for acronym -- it is appropriate<< Agreed. I noticed when I was at the MK last week that the ice cream shop had reduced their menu offerings (not flavors) to 4 items. The sundae, the (2 scoop) cone, kids cone and float. Gone most noticeably is the 1 scoop cone. I assume there is still a button so that you can order it but that requires knowledge of the existence of the option. So I wonder if the reduction is due to guest's natural preference (i.e. 90% of guests ordered those 4 items) or a way to up sell without conciseness thought (kind of like the burger options being double burgers) where if you don't want the "kids version" you are "stuck" with a higher priced option where you may really just want the single cone? I think I know the answer to that question but it's still an interesting thought that could be had towards the rest of the food offerings. Do people really only order X items that the best business model is to only offer those items? Or is it just another way to cut corners when if you offered 15 items and guests ordered pretty equal percentages of those items which potentially means higher cost of goods? Food for thought- -em << Good points Em. I think it has become an issue of taking a limited number of items on the menu that are the biggest sellers, and thinking that's good enough for everybody. Just my opinion though.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> While we were talking he told us that they were heading home the next day and still had 6 TS meals, 10 CS meals, and who knows how many snacks leftover. They were all going to be unused. << I've read the same story over, and over in other Disney forums. A lot of people buy into the DDP because they get to pay for everything at once. I think a lot of them really don't stop, and think how much food they are buying. As the Mouse continues to raise the prices on food, more, and more folks will be forced into buying into the DDP if they want to dine on property.
