Originally Posted By jonvn Is that what happened? I have no idea. Must be that though, because otherwise, I don't know what was out of place in what I said. Anyway, as I was saying. most people do drive ok, most of the time. But people do slip up, and this is why you have to be a defensive driver. Everyone makes mistakes, and something that requires constant attention is something that people just don't do well at. Tens of thousands do get killed every year in auto crashes. Half of them are are from drunk drivers. You have to just be careful, I don't think any amount of driver training is going to make this totally safe.
Originally Posted By peeaanuut yeah your other comments were fine. But when you and I mentioned the A word we got admin'd. As far as drunk drivers, while you will not be able to get all of them off the road, a fair number of them come from drinking establishments. With a small amount of technology you could almost eliminate all of them. Take a hint from the key parties and take the keys away at the door. You have to blow legal to get them back when you leave the bar. Incentives like free soda and stuff for DD (designated drivers, not darling daughter) help a little bit, that is only if the group is smart enough to pick on in the first place. Im just saying this: personal responsibility is at an all time low in the country. That is evident with all the law suits going through the courts right now. If we had a better sense of personal responsibility we would feel more compelled to be better drivers among other things.
Originally Posted By jonvn "personal responsibility is at an all time low in the country" Yes, it seems to be. Goes for corporations as well. Did you hear about the Yahoo thing going on in congress? Yahoo apparently sold out a chinese dissident. Because of money. But you would think people would be better drivers not just out of personal responsibility, but simple to save their own rear. But we're all out for a quick buck. You can't really get ahead these days unless you get some kind of big payday like you do in the lottery or a lawsuit. I think it's a sign of desperation.
Originally Posted By barboy "Tens of thousands do get killed every year in auto crashes. Half of them are are from drunk drivers' not really---- about 1 in 3 actually--- (which is pretty much the same as speeding deaths)
Originally Posted By wahooskipper Personal responsibility? It doesn't exist. It went the way of good manners. Here is a crazy idea: don't break the law. I'm a parks director and we are currently retrofitting a playground with the new, rubberized surfacing (as the result of a lawsuit). During the process we have put up signs stating the park was closed, wrapped the park with caution tape, and wrapped the swings around the poles. Two weeks ago they were putting the stone base into what was a pretty gaping hole underneath all the equipment. I went over there (signs up, wrapped in caution tape, etc) and there were kids all over the equipment. The parents were standing right there. When I inquired as to what the hell they were doing (more politely than that) I was told the kids wanted to play. Yes, of course they do but don't you see it is unsafe and, well...it is CLOSED? "But, our kids aren't really good with 'NO'." Uh, yeah...but you are the parent, are you not? Oh, and can I tell you there is another playground about 500 yards away that is open? "Yes, but our kids don't like that one and it is too far away." We are raising a bunch of, shall I say, little kittens?
Originally Posted By peeaanuut <<Personal responsibility? It doesn't exist. It went the way of good manners. Here is a crazy idea: don't break the law.>> Your telling me you follow every law no matter how ridiculously skewed it is? I highly doubt that.
Originally Posted By peeaanuut <<When I inquired as to what the hell they were doing (more politely than that) I was told the kids wanted to play. Yes, of course they do but don't you see it is unsafe and, well...it is CLOSED? "But, our kids aren't really good with 'NO'." Uh, yeah...but you are the parent, are you not? Oh, and can I tell you there is another playground about 500 yards away that is open? "Yes, but our kids don't like that one and it is too far away." We are raising a bunch of, shall I say, little kittens?>> see, some kids just need to smacked. Im sorry if this offends anyone, but a good butt whoppin by your parents can go a long way.
Originally Posted By jonvn Things are being made so "safe" that when people see things that say it's unsafe, they simply have stopped believing it. I looked up some stats. These are fun reading: There were nearly 6,420,000 auto accidents in the United States in 2005. The financial cost of these crashes is more than 230 Billion dollars. 2.9 million people were injured and 42,636 people killed. About 115 people die every day in vehicle crashes in the United States -- one death every 13 minutes. In 2003 there were 6,328,000 car accidents in the US. There were 2.9 million injuries and 42,643 people were killed in auto accidents. In 2002, there were an estimated 6,316,000 car accidents in the USA. There were about 2.9 million injuries and 42,815 people were killed in auto accidents in 2002. There were an estimated 6,356,000 car accidents in the US in 2000. There were about 3.2 million injuries and 41,821 people were killed in auto accidents in 2000 based on data collected by the Federal Highway Administration. There were 16,885 alcohol-related fatalities in 2005 – 39 percent of the total traffic fatalities for the year. So, not half, but a bit more than 1/3, as well. Huge number.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Your telling me you follow every law no matter how ridiculously skewed it is?" Really. People break the law constantly, there are so many of them, and they don't even realize.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper Do I intentionally break laws? No. Of course I might have more of a reason not too than most. Since I work for local government I could lose my job for even minor traffic infractions. But, no, I don't run red lights and I don't blow through stop signs. While it is an offense to do so I also think it is just plain rude to other drivers which, to me anyway, is a greater deterrent. I don't like to be rude. So yes (gasp) I use my turn signals, I yield to other traffic when appropriate, and I stop at red lights. I must be insane.
Originally Posted By jdub <<So yes (gasp) I use my turn signals...>> Sometimes I get the impression that new cars are manufactured WITHOUT these revolutionary tools! And speaking of tools, what's with people who use my use of a lane change indicator to SPEED UP to prevent my announced move!?
Originally Posted By barboy I think in '06 there was a good 45K auto related deaths in the US of which say slightly less than 14K were alcohol related. I wonder what the number of fatalities stem from hotheads who argue with passengers, eat, put on makeup or cell talk--- my guess would be equal to or more than than alcohol.
Originally Posted By peeaanuut <<But, no, I don't run red lights and I don't blow through stop signs.>> well that is quite unsafe. It has nothing to do with the law, it has to do with not knowing what the other guy is gonna do. But laws such as a 55mph freeway average is just rediculous. <<And speaking of tools, what's with people who use my use of a lane change indicator to SPEED UP to prevent my announced move!?>> or the reverse of that when people think their blinker is an automatic right to change lanes no matter what. My Brother in Law drives that way and it bugs the crap out of me.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper Woudn't it be just grand if we lived life by each individual deciding which laws they would follow and which they found "ridiculous"? Oh, wait, that IS how we live now and...well...it ain't working out well in my opinion.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>So yes (gasp) I use my turn signals, I yield to other traffic when appropriate, and I stop at red lights. I must be insane.<< You're some kind of rebel. Like me.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Oh, wait, that IS how we live now and...well...it ain't working out well in my opinion." Maybe if we got Mussolini in here, he could make us all tow the line.
Originally Posted By peeaanuut << Woudn't it be just grand if we lived life by each individual deciding which laws they would follow and which they found "ridiculous"? Oh, wait, that IS how we live now and...well...it ain't working out well in my opinion.>> There are alot of laws based on mass paranoia and public stupidity. Laws that only serve the purpose of govt taking a larger bite, such as national speed laws, fines for sagging your pants and red light cameras are ridiculous and should be abolished. Red light cameras are the ultimate in lazy govt and shows that money is the drive behind their existance and not the common good.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>Red light cameras are the ultimate in lazy govt and shows that money is the drive behind their existance and not the common good.<< On the contrary, the cameras rake in a pretty good amount of revenue that goes back into the police force. At the same time, they do seem to make most people less likely to run a red light, knowing they'll be photographed and fined. I live on a busy street. I see yahoos racing up and down the street all the time. I also have seen cars flip over, sliding on their hoods, seen a car jump the island into oncoming traffic, and another car hit a tree so hard it uprooted it while breaking the trunk in half. Unfortunately, the police can't be everywhere, so they get away with it. Until they get to the intersection where the red light camera is. They're smart enough to stop there for some reason. Probably the $250 fine they know they'll get. Yeah, I love tough guys who race on city streets. Very impressive stuff. They all know better than everyone, because, of course, they are all excellent drivers. Just ask them, they'll tell you so.
Originally Posted By jonvn Yes, they do stop red light runners fairly well. They also cause a lot of rear end accidents, too. SF put in a bunch of them, because people were taking red lights as a friendly suggestion, and people were really getting creamed in intersections. The cameras helped. Now we get lots of rear enders, as people slam on their brakes unexpectedly to avoid having their picture taken.
