Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan I'm not sure how "unexpectedly" it would be, except that a lot of drivers think yellow means "speed up to beat the red light".
Originally Posted By jonvn Well, you're driving along, and all of a sudden the person in front of you slams on their brakes for no apparent reason. That is what is happening, and people end up getting slammed into.
Originally Posted By peeaanuut <<On the contrary, the cameras rake in a pretty good amount of revenue that goes back into the police force. At the same time, they do seem to make most people less likely to run a red light, knowing they'll be photographed and fined. I live on a busy street. I see yahoos racing up and down the street all the time. I also have seen cars flip over, sliding on their hoods, seen a car jump the island into oncoming traffic, and another car hit a tree so hard it uprooted it while breaking the trunk in half. Unfortunately, the police can't be everywhere, so they get away with it. Until they get to the intersection where the red light camera is. They're smart enough to stop there for some reason. Probably the $250 fine they know they'll get. Yeah, I love tough guys who race on city streets. Very impressive stuff. They all know better than everyone, because, of course, they are all excellent drivers. Just ask them, they'll tell you so.>> I like how you scewed my opinion into something that is completely rediculous. Apparantly you think that because I dont like red light cameras I condone street racing. Interesting thought process there.
Originally Posted By peeaanuut also as mentioned before, it has been proven that lights are being changed to only allow a yellow light on for a fraction of a section. Barely enough time to turn on the light and certainly not enough time for people to comprehend it. A delay between a light turning red and another light turning green would be more effective. But that doesn't make money so its not even attempted.
Originally Posted By jonvn In this state, a light must remain yellow for a certain number of seconds, or the ticket you get is illegal and can be thrown out. That's one of the defenses to a ticket like this. You go out and video tape the traffic signal. It has to be yellow for at least a certain duration.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>There are alot of laws based on mass paranoia and public stupidity. Laws that only serve the purpose of govt taking a larger bite, such as national speed laws, fines for sagging your pants and red light cameras are ridiculous and should be abolished. Red light cameras are the ultimate in lazy govt and shows that money is the drive behind their existance and not the common good.<< That, too, is an interesting thought process. You have somehow made red light cameras indicative of "lazy government". I see it as doing something cost efficient to help stop a nuiscance, you see it as some sort of "mass paranoia". Okay.
Originally Posted By peeaanuut while that is true, most people do not challenge their tickets. They simply accept the fine and pay it. A completely stupid way of going about it of course, but still it happens. I have challenged many tickets and have been able to get out of them many times. I have helped people plead their case before as well and get them out of the fine in court. Most people do not do that. I concider your states vehicle code a mandatory book in every drivers house, but mot people again have no idea that it even exists.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>most people do not challenge their tickets<< Or maybe, some people admit that they did something wrong, got caught, and don't try and wiggle out of it. It's possible. That's not stupid. It's called honorable.
Originally Posted By jonvn "while that is true, most people do not challenge their tickets. " Yes, because they are simply cowed into doing what they are told. You should always fight every ticket you ever get.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>I concider your states vehicle code a mandatory book in every drivers house, but mot people again have no idea that it even exists.<< Of course the point of the thing is to learn what the rules are and how to obey them, not bend them. If you've gotten "many" tickets, that means something.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Or maybe, some people admit that they did something wrong, got caught, and don't try and wiggle out of it. It's possible." Yes, it's possible, but it's also wrong. In this country, we put a lot of weight on forcing the prosecution to prove to a judge that the defendant is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. That is one of the hallmarks of our justice system, that we just don't have police acting as judge and jury. By meekly going in and pleading guilty, you subvert the justice system in this country. Even if you are guilty, you should challenge the government to prove it. A lot of times they won't or can't, and in that case, you get off. What does this do? Well, aside from just getting you a not guilty verdict, it causes our justice system to act more responsibly. It makes them more honest and it makes them follow the law more closely. There are a ton of laws that protect you as a defendant. That goes for a murder defendant as well as a jaywalking defendant. You should not ever throw away your rights, and you should not ever let the government let you think you have no rights.
Originally Posted By peeaanuut <<That, too, is an interesting thought process. You have somehow made red light cameras indicative of "lazy government". I see it as doing something cost efficient to help stop a nuiscance, you see it as some sort of "mass paranoia". Okay.>> I apologize for my wording the and should have been and/or. Running a red light is public stupidity. Red light cameras are a way for city, county and state govt from reducing the number of police they have employed. They require no human interaction at all. They automatically issue a citation that gets mailed and people send in their check. Free money for govt with them doing nothing what-so-ever to earn it. Than there is no proof that that revenue goes into supporting civic improvements. It certainly doesn't go to hiring more police officers.
Originally Posted By peeaanuut <<Or maybe, some people admit that they did something wrong, got caught, and don't try and wiggle out of it. It's possible. That's not stupid. It's called honorable.>> its not wiggling out of them. The govt has to follow certain rules when fining someone and if they do not follow those rules than the ticket becomes invalid. I am not going to admit guilt for something that I should never have been fined fire. It has nothing to do with honorable and I resent you trying to paint me as a horrible person. When I have not done that to you.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>What does this do? Well, aside from just getting you a not guilty verdict, it causes our justice system to act more responsibly.<< It also makes government much more expensive for no reason. I'm not saying you should NEVER fight a ticket, if you honestly believe that you are innocent. But fighting every ticket "on principle" is just nonsense.
Originally Posted By peeaanuut <<If you've gotten "many" tickets, that means something.>> it means that I have simply gotten caught more than others. it means nothing other than that and certainly not what you are implying. You are a horrible person to even imply that.
Originally Posted By peeaanuut <<>>You should always fight every ticket you ever get.<< LOL!>> you are a good candidate to be framed for murder. You will just roll over and accept it apparently. You seem unwilling to fight for your self.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan I'm not painting you as a horrible person, peeaanuut. But I'm also growing bored with the idea that the government is out to get, specifically, you. You say you have all these tickets. Did you deserve none of them?
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>you are a good candidate to be framed for murder. You will just roll over and accept it apparently. You seem unwilling to fight for your self.<< Yes, that's exactly what I said. Always accept guilt. That's exactly what I said. That lack of understanding is what comes from looking for loopholes while missing the larger meaning of text.
Originally Posted By jonvn "It also makes government much more expensive for no reason." That's a terrible reason. You are saying we should not allow the prosecution of people in this country to become slipshod because it costs money to use your rights as an American?
