Originally Posted By Donny Can someone explain to me how this is going to bring down how much Hospitals and pharmaceuticals cost ?
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Originally Posted By Mr X ***I just think it is wrong to force people to have health insurance*** So then, if someone who choses not to have insurance gets into a horrible car wreck and needs emergency care, who should pay? Or should the paramedics be required to leave him by the side of the road, unassisted?
Originally Posted By Donny Mr. X "So then, if someone who choses not to have insurance gets into a horrible car wreck and needs emergency care, who should pay?" To me that is up to the hospital to decide.
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Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Republicans working together to deny health insurance to millions of Americans are the real "death panels."
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>Can someone explain to me how this is going to bring down how much Hospitals and pharmaceuticals cost ?<< As I said before Donny, that is a separate issue that also needs to be dealt with. What I do know is that every single industrialized nation that has a single payor system has done a much better job of controlling costs than we have. Why? Simple. In our current system there is no incentive for anyone to control costs. Insurers don't care because they will simply raise rates. Providers don't care because they get paid anyway and patients don't care because "someone else" is paying for the insurance (usually an employer). In a single payor system insurance is covered via payrol taxes, which means that taxpayers are aware of the costs (taxes). The single payor system has an incentive to keep costs under control because raising taxes is politically dangerous. And since providers have a single source of payment the single payor system has more leverage over providers. Witness how they complain and moan about how medicare and medicaid don't pay enough to cover their costs (they don't want to adapt). So in a nutshell, that's how a single payor system could help. Of course there are other factors, such as malpractice costs, but these could be addressed as well.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>>Republicans working together to deny health insurance to millions of Americans are the real "death panels." <<< Ding, ding, ding, ding! We have a winner! I couldn't have said it better myself.
Originally Posted By fkurucz It still boggles my mind how we have been brainwashed in this country into accepting that an underclass is somehow necessary to "Keep America Strong". It's these policies that make me ashamed to be an American.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>It still boggles my mind how we have been brainwashed in this country into accepting that an underclass is somehow necessary to "Keep America Strong".<< It's this strange myth that some like to perpetuate that it's all just a matter of working hard and you, too, can be very wealthy. If the playing field was truly level, then sure, that'd be great. But honest to God, it feels like more and more the deck is so stacked against the average person. At what point do people just get fed up? And what does it mean to the fabric of a nation when people become discouraged and hopeless? If we were the only nation attempting to offer some level of health coverage to people, I could understand the fight against "Obamacare." But it's only a small step towards helping the average person compared to most every other industrialized nation, and the GOP is coming unglued about it. Meanwhile, not a peep about the concept of launching a couple of wars that were useless, expensive endeavors. THAT sort of thing we can always afford. Keeping our citizens healthy without going broke? Not so much.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>It still boggles my mind how we have been brainwashed in this country into accepting that an underclass is somehow necessary to "Keep America Strong". It's these policies that make me ashamed to be an American.<<< It is upsetting that part of the freedom immigrants were seeking in the first 200 years was away from the class system of Europe and a new start. And yet the GOP seem to want to create a greater divide, and there is most of a social justice gulf in the US than Europe.
Originally Posted By ChurroMonster "So then, if someone who choses not to have insurance gets into a horrible car wreck and needs emergency care, who should pay?" That would be their car insurance company's responsibility, depending upon elected levels of coverage. No car insurance? Well, they're screwed.
Originally Posted By Mr X Are you referring to emergency care for their car? Or are car insurance companies in the business of paying hospital bills now?
Originally Posted By ChurroMonster Many health insurance plans exclude coverage for automobile accidents since bodily injury coverage is available with most auto insurance plans. However, many health insurance plans will cover automobile accidents after first exhausting all efforts to make car insurance companies pay. It's just a good idea to take the "Bodily Injury" (which medically covers others who are injured) and "Un/Under-insured Injury" (which medically covers you and your passengers) options when buying car insurance to make sure you're covered.
Originally Posted By fkurucz "Or are car insurance companies in the business of paying hospital bills now? " Yhey are for accidents. Its all part of our byzantine heathcare system.
Originally Posted By fkurucz "At what point do people just get fed up?" In America, never. In France they rioted over raising the retirement age to 62. In America its already 67 (Social Security) and there is talk of raising it to 70. All Joe 6 Pack did was shrug, grab a beer and continue watching the NFL (and vote the GOP back into power). You may draw your own conclusions.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***"Or are car insurance companies in the business of paying hospital bills now? " Yhey are for accidents. Its all part of our byzantine heathcare system.*** Apparently so, as Churro has informed me so kindly (and sorry Churro if my reply sounded snippy, I really didn't know such bizarre insurance schemes were really going on!). What a sad, really pathetic situation America is in now, to hear stuff like this. I can say without a doubt, that the country *I* live in is markedly superior to America on healthcare. On nearly every measurable front! I have affordable care at the drop of a hat. Dental, too. My daughter gets care for free (through age 14). As long as I chose to live here, for the rest of my life I will *never* have to worry about whether or not I have health care, no matter what my job situation or health condition. Yet some would call my situation "Socialist Hell". Well, they can go ahead and say it, but I hope they never have to live through a bad care situation in America, because that seems all too frequent these days, and getting worse the more people lose their jobs and the more insurance companies jack up their rates. The truly bizarre thing is that "Obamacare" is pissing so many people off. WHY, exactly?
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan WHY, exactly?<< Because there is a thick thread of "Screw you if you didn't plan for every misfortune life throws at you/I got mine, too bad if you don't got yours." In other words, some people take great satisfaction (secretly, privately, never really spoken aloud) in seeing people "get what they deserve." In their heads, they imagine that this is about lazy good for nothings who want the world handed to them on a silver platter. Of course, most of the people with this attitude have their health care coverage supplied by, or at least subsidized by their employers (or in the case of politicians working to subvert this legislation, we sucker taxpayers). They've got theirs (at least for now) so too bad for those who don't. Maybe they should work harder and then they'd get healthcare benefits. That's the mindset of many in this country -- the Silent Perpetually Angry. The Sarah Palins and Newt Gingriches and Glenn Becks out there give them voice and moral support and talking points. But it's truly an ugly, ugly thing.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan The other thing is that we've had Social Security and other measures in place, so that we don't see what the country would truly be like if this dark, selfish, every man for himself attitude were allowed to prevail. But we're starting to get more and more of a glimpse as poverty is hitting formerly "safe" income brackets. You have to laugh (or cry) at the irony that every one of the politicos who are fighting this legislation enjoy great health benefits and good pension plans courtesy of the very people that they're swiping these crumbs from.
