Originally Posted By ecdc >>Just to be fair to the good folks in Oklahoma... I'm going to guess a lot of them, perhaps most, were fine with federal assistance going to victims of Sandy.<< Do they? I'm not so sure. But I may be unfairly projecting the Sarah Palin-like rhetoric onto them vis-a-vis how they feel about east coast liberals. Agree 100% with the rest. Americans: We spend too much! Reporter: What should we cut! Americans: Nothing!
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Americans: Stuff that doesn't affect ME! Fixed that. I shouldn't be so cynical. I try not to be. But I'm beyond impatient with low information voters and the politicians who cater to them.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <But I may be unfairly projecting the Sarah Palin-like rhetoric onto them vis-a-vis how they feel about east coast liberals.> Oh a lot of them don't like what they see as east coast liberals. But still willing to aid someone in a disaster.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<Do they? I'm not so sure.>> Agreed. I firmly believe that most of them voted for Inhofe and Colburn because they genuinely think the same as they do. They don't like the two coasts because we're all 'perverting' the American culture with our liberal pinko commie anti-American anti-Christian unconstitutional lifestyles.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<I was just pointing out your continued spewing of hate for anyone who disagrees with you.>> Yeah, Josh. I absolutely HATE YOU! HATE! HATE! HATE! HATE! HATE! AND I HATE EVERYONE I DISAGREE WITH!! EVEN WHEN I DON'T ACTUALLY DISAGREE WITH THEM! I JUST CAN'T GET ENOUGH HATE! HATE! HATE! HATE! HATE! HATE! There you go, Josh. That should nurture your victim complex for a while longer.
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 There are people on the coasts that probably think the middle of the country is a bunch of Bible spewing gun nuts, just like the people in middle of the country think people on the coasts are bunch godless homosexuals. Of course the media noise machine loves to play up those stereotypes. Oh and skinner was it really necessary to be so dramatic.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox YES! ABSOLUTELY! I MUST BE DRAMATIC! BECAUSE I'M A GODLESS HOMOSEXUAL WHO JUST CAN'T GET ENOUGH HATE! On a lighter note... I'm really fed up with Josh's declaration that anyone who disagrees with conservatives also hates conservatives. Enough already. I believe he's projecting his own particular brand of hatred onto those who don't think as he does. Given how many conservatives want to turn minorities and gays into second class citizens with fewer civil rights and opportunities to succeed in life, it's an easy conclusion to draw.
Originally Posted By fabshelly I think the polarization of politics brings out the passion in people; I think if Josh and Skinner sat down at Big Thunder BBQ for lunch and a chat, they'd actually find that they're not so polarized after all. I can be exasperated, but that doesn't mean I hate the person who is pushing my buttons.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer Oklahoma, like most solidly Republican states, takes in more Federal money than it pays it. It is a welfare state, living off of the wealth of others. <a href="http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2011/08/americas-fiscal-union" target="_blank">http://www.economist.com/blogs...al-union</a> New Jersey pays far more in federal taxes then they get back. So these knuckle-dragging Republicans from a state that sucks from the federal teat with great enthusiasm whines when they are asked to help out a state that pays more than it receives in federal funds. New Jersey is supporting welfare and Medicaid and farm subsidies for the Republican socialist state of Oklahoma. But God forbid Oklahoma return the favor when New Jersey needs help. The GOP is shameless in their lies.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I was a 55 year resident of Minnesota, a state FAR HIGHER on the list than California is, so I certainly understand the point. On the other hand, I've never known a Minnesotan to be quite as obnoxious about it as skinnerbox is...
Originally Posted By RoadTrip That's why this country is screwed. No middle ground anymore. Just two extremes constantly at war.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>Just two extremes<< I don't know about that. The right has pulled so far off into the far right that Obama is labeled "extreme." He's pretty centrist, really, and yet the right paints him as this extremist. I don't see that happening in the other direction to the same extent. It's tempting to say one side is as bad as the other, but honestly, I don't think it's 50/50. In my lifetime, there hasn't been a time when one side has dug in and refused to cooperate on even the simplest things the way the GOP has since Obama took office. Even Tip O'Neill and Reagan worked together. They have made a calculated effort to oppose everything he proposes. Even decrying Michelle Obama's efforts to get kids to exercise and eat veggies as socialism. I can't recall the left doing that with such unanimity as the GOP has done the past 4+ years.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip No, I certainly don't think Obama is extreme. I consider myself a left-leaning moderate and I voted for him twice. Some of the voices on this board in my opinion are extreme (not to mention strident and abrasive). The problem is that type of argument convinces NO ONE except people who ALREADY agree with you. You're screeching to the choir, folks. The people you could maybe convince to change their positions immediately tune you out. Conservatives CAN change their minds... but most of the posts here will never do it. McCaskill didn't have a chance in hell of winning re-election to the Senate from Missouri this year. Then Akin made his asinine "legitimate rape" remark. McCaskill wisely chose to not say much about it... she let others do her talking. Both moderates and mainstream conservatives locally and nationwide criticized the remarks and said he should step aside. Akin refused to do so and the generally conservative Missouri electorate re-elected McCaskill by a significant margin. Screeches from the left would have convinced very few here, I can guarantee you that. It was rational voices making a calm but clear argument that made Missouri voters decide the guy had to go. If you are just sounding off and looking for "attaboys" from LPers of like mind, feel free to do what you are doing. No one pays much attention to anonymous posters at a Disney site anyway. But if you are talking to REAL PEOPLE who just might be persuaded to modify their beliefs, tone it down a little. OK? I'd really like to see some Republicans rescued from the clutches of the wing-nut right and force the Republican Party to move back toward the center. What I read here will never do it.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox << On the other hand, I've never known a Minnesotan to be quite as obnoxious about it as skinnerbox is...>> Thank you. I pride myself on being obnoxious. There was a time I wasn't. And no one ever noticed me. I was the person who blended into the woodwork. And it made my social life a living hell. So if I'm obnoxious, so be it. I've got plenty of liberal friends now who are also obnoxious. In fact, even more than me. We all love being obnoxious. And if it bothers you, too bad. We are what we are. Blue state liberal and damned effn proud of it!
Originally Posted By skinnerbox << You're screeching to the choir, folks. The people you could maybe convince to change their positions immediately tune you out. Conservatives CAN change their minds... but most of the posts here will never do it.>> Wrong. They won't. The folks who remain in the GOP are the teabagging morons who cannot change or the religious conservative types who refuse to change. Anyone with any sense and the desire to see the reality of what their party has actually become, has already left.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<But if you are talking to REAL PEOPLE who just might be persuaded to modify their beliefs, tone it down a little. OK? I'd really like to see some Republicans rescued from the clutches of the wing-nut right and force the Republican Party to move back toward the center. What I read here will never do it.>> You have a better chance of winning the lottery. Seriously. Trust me. The folks that remain are not going to change. The GOP is getting more and more psychotic every month. And their loyal constituents are eating it up! You're living in a fantasy world, RT, if you think there's hope for them. And when you get right down to it... you're the one who's bothered by my rhetoric. But you're using the 'screeching to the choir' excuse to justify telling me to tone it down. If you don't like what I post, don't read it. But don't tell me that I should 'tone it down' because doing so just might convince conservative Republicans that they're swallowing lies and believing falsehoods. That's simply not going to happen.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>What I read here will never do it.<< Considering that study after study shows that facts don't do it, that moderate reasoning won't do it, it's quite the long shot. Most message boards are preaching to the choir. That's the unfortunate nature of the game these days. But the reality is humans evolved to reinforce preconceived beliefs and reduce dissonance. So no matter how rational and reasonable someone sounds, people tend to dig in their heels and stick to their guns, no matter how absurd. We like to think of people as reasonable - they'll listen to a persuasive argument and make a choice; but it just doesn't work like that. I share your frustration for some of the over-the-topness of this board (hell, I'm probably guilty of it myself), but moderate it all you like, and it won't make any difference. That's not how people work.
