Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<Oh, and by the way Skinner you know I like and respect you very much, and we agree on a great many things, but in this instance I think you're only helping to prove the "two extremes" argument.>> Possibly. I won't reject that notion out of hand. But I do find myself getting more 'extreme' towards the left as the conservatives become more extreme to the right. I don't know why I do it; perhaps it's just self-defense? I think the wingnuts have completely taken over the GOP and any moderates remaining will either have to swing wildly to the right in order to stay relevant, or leave the party altogether. Seems like many of them are leaving, which is why I believe with each passing year that fewer and fewer of them are genuinely open to changing their minds. Should be interesting to see if Senator Collins decides to retire before re-election a la Olympia Snowe. I'm guessing she's a goner.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox << I'm well aware of the studies that show how so many people just dig in when presented with facts that contradict their beliefs, but even if a majority of people do that, it's nothing approaching 100%. You CAN get through to some people.>> Be that as it may... as more and more centrists leave the Republican party, fewer and fewer are left who are capable of changing their positions. The die-hards on the far right of the spectrum will never change. And their numbers as a percentage of the total party are steadily increasing. Therefore, anyone who willingly remains a Republican at this time has a slim chance of being able to hear the facts on specific issues and not pretend they're false or deliberate lies concocted to trash the GOP. The vast overwhelming majority of the Republicans who remain loyal to the party are either part of the 2% and solely focused on their own desires or simply incapable of critical thinking detached from emotional biases. They either want our democracy replaced with a total oligarchy, or they're lost in a nostalgic wave of 'Leave It to Beaver' glory days when white straight Christian men controlled everything and always got their way. The only way these folks are ever going to leave the party, no matter how many times their elected officials throw them under the bus and worsen their ability to simply survive, is through death. They've dug in their heels and declared Obama a socialist Kenyan. They firmly believe the Democrats and immigrants and gays and women are taking the country directly into hell. They long for an American lifestyle that died decades ago while pretending that the GOP still cares deeply for the survival of the middle class. Nothing will ever change their minds. They're taking this stuff to their graves.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>Each side says that. A lot of Republicans thought that Bush was a centrist as well and we know what the left thought of him. The center moves based on what your perspective is.<< Sure ... where's the free universal, single payer healthcare? Where's the free college education? Where's the guaranteed paid holidays and vacations (the USA is the only industrialized nation where they are not mandated by law). Yeah, right, Obama is a "socialist". Now what does the GOP want to do? 1) Reduce taxes on the very rich 2) Kill Social Security 3) Kill Medicare 4) Eliminate assistance programs for the poor. 5) Eliminate minimum wage In other words, they want to turn us into a 3rd world country. Who's "extreme"?
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>Nothing will ever change their minds. They're taking this stuff to their graves.<< And the GOP with them.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip They'll change. The main thing they hate about Democrats is the Black guy with the funny name. Once his term is over it will be a new game.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 If Hillary becomes the next president it will be the same game with a different twist. A lot of these old farts can't stand the idea of a woman president either.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>A lot of these old farts can't stand the idea of a woman president either.<< It really amazes me just how much stupidity remains. Two days ago Jerry Lewis reiterated his belief that women aren't funny. It's the 21st freaking century. Not only have Tina Fey and Amy Poehler blown the lid off of this, Julia Louis-Dreyfus has been killing it for decades. And that doesn't even go back to the Lily Tomlin, Jane Curtain, Gilda Radner days. And they don't go back with Lucille Ball or Phyllis Diller and a million other women who've been funny as hell for the last seventy years.
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf "Now what does the GOP want to do? 1) Reduce taxes on the very rich 2) Kill Social Security 3) Kill Medicare 4) Eliminate assistance programs for the poor. 5) Eliminate minimum wage" Congrats - comments like this make your side seem as crazy as the right-wing nuts. You proved my point very well.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<Congrats - comments like this make your side seem as crazy as the right-wing nuts. You proved my point very well.>> Comments like this are based in FACT. If you can't accept the painfully obvious agenda of the current crop of Republican politicians, that's your problem. But every single item in that list is what the GOP is striving towards achieving. They want to take the country back to the robber baron era. Too bad you're too blind to see it.
Originally Posted By fkurucz "Congrats - comments like this make your side seem as crazy as the right-wing nuts. You proved my point very well." My side? You assume that I am a Democrat. You could not be more wrong. I will never be a Democrat. I am a former Republican, who has left the party in disgust and am now unaffiliated.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***But I do find myself getting more 'extreme' towards the left as the conservatives become more extreme to the right. I don't know why I do it; perhaps it's just self-defense?*** Perhaps. Or defensiveness, in any case. I do the same thing. Recently I've caught myself doing it, so perhaps I'm just sensitive to it right now. It certainly seems like the best way to fight back, but in a way it only serves to help the ones who use the "both sides do it" argument prove their point, or at least give them some ammo.
