Originally Posted By gadzuux Republicans are only preventing abortions for the young and the poor. Women of means can always obtain an abortion. So yes, it's both 'sexist' AND 'classist', but then this is the GOP we're talking about, and ever has it been thus. Nobody's mentioned "HR3" - or, the THIRD highest priority for the republican party in this congressional session. - It would deny tax credits to employers or other entities that pay for health plans that cover abortion - It would deny tax credits to individuals or entities that pay for abortion care - Disallow medical deductions for payments for any health plan that includes abortion coverage or for any medical expenses related to abortion care - Treat as income any amounts paid for an abortion from a tax-preferred trust or account, such as a health savings account ----------------------------------------- Essentially, employers who offer health insurance to women employees that include any reproductive health benefits will see an increase in their taxes and fees. Republicans hate women. It seems inflammatory to say, but you just need to watch what they do. Over and over again.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <To say that abortion is the only solution to this problem is stupid.> To say that anybody here said anything like that... that's stupid.
Originally Posted By ecdc Donny you're missing the point (again). Abortion is a complicated issue with lots of heated feelings. I'm all for mature, rational conversations around the topic. The problem here is the Republican hypocrisy. They don't want abortion, but it's a Constitutional right for a woman, according to the Supreme Court. They have a couple of options. They could support education and funding of groups like Planned Parenthood that significantly reduce abortions. They could support sex education like our European counterparts, who have a lower abortion rate as a result. But instead, they go for legislative trickery, showing them for the hypocritical cowards they are. These are supposed to be the guys of small government. Yet they just imposed government on women's lives far more than Barack Obama or the Democrats ever have. And, as gadzuux accurately said, this will impact the poor the most. So much for the "least of these," right?
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Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Donny, I would like to invite you to work with some of the children I have, those that have been physically and sexually abused, who have severe disabilities and were abandoned, those who were unwanted. Or the babies we cannot seem to find homes for because they were drug addicts before they were born. If it is about doing the humane thing, an abortion in the early first trimester is the humane thing. And don't go on about caring for lives unless you fully support social medicine and free college tuition for children in care. Because they are all services they need to break the cycle. I saw the bruised and bleeding corpse of Baby Peter, a child who was not wanted and had 68 fractures before he died. It burrowed into my brain and still keeps me awake at night. And it solidified my pro choice stance.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>Republicans are against taxpayer subsidized prenatal care for poor women. Republicans are against stringent building and environmental codes that landlords would have to follow to provide a safe place for a woman carrying a child to live in, exposing her to lead and allergens that affect the physical development of an in-vitro fetus. Republicans are against nutritional assistance to poor women who are pregnant even though dietary intake has a major effect on the physical and cognitive development of a fetus. The Republicans are adamant about cutting off funding for family planning services and prenatal care for poor women.<< While I am prolife, these are among the many reasons I quit the Republican party.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer I'm pro-life, too, fkurucz, based on my faith and my understanding of the biological relationship between a fetus and a mother. But if we really want to eliminate abortion then we need to make sure that we make it easy for those who need it to have access to birth control (i.e., Planned Parenthood) and for teaching more than just abstinence.
Originally Posted By Princessjenn5795 I am pro-life for myself. I do not think I could ever get an abortion. But I firmly believe that I have no right, at all, to make those decisions for anyone else. As a woman who has had a child I can also understand how hard it is for a woman (or girl) with no family or financial support, who has other issues, or who was raped, to go through a pregnancy and do not look down on those who choose an an abortion at all. I believe that we need to drastically improve support and education in order to reduce the number of unplanned pregnancies, and abortions, but that abortions need to remain legal in order to be safe. I also believe that forcing a woman to carry the baby of the person who raped her is just cruel...it is forcing her to life with a daily reminder of what happened to her.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>But if we really want to eliminate abortion then we need to make sure that we make it easy for those who need it to have access to birth control (i.e., Planned Parenthood) and for teaching more than just abstinence.<< Bing. O. That's what I don't get - there's so many ways people with different perspectives on abortion can work together to reduce abortions. I don't know anyone who "likes" abortion. Donny's claim that abortion is a form of birth control is typical of conservative attempts to marginalize those who don't agree with them. If we want to reduce abortions, let's agree on policies that do just that, such as sex ed, easy access to birth control for the poor, etc. And I'm fine with educating women on adoption options as part of this sort of thing. I do think women should be aware of their adoption options before they choose to abort a child. But this can be done in a sympathetic, caring way, not the mean-spirited ways Republicans seem to adore.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>there's so many ways people with different perspectives on abortion can work together to reduce abortions<< There are, but some of them mean recognizing that unmarried people have sex. For a lot of "pro life" people, that is a huge no-no, a sin, naughty. And they'll always see contraception as condoning premarital sex. I'm afraid that is a majority of the GOP right now.
Originally Posted By ecdc And that's just it. Compromise can't exist if one party believes they're doing God's work and that God doesn't believe in compromise. This authoritative "I'm right and you're wrong" is toxic to solving issues.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo There is another huge facet to contraception education, and it is about expectation management. International studies are proven to show where young people in particular have high self esteem and career or lifestyle goals, they are more likely to use contraception. The other thing that is interesting is how many people marry in the US when they are teens or early 20's. It seems like people marry much younger in the US than in Europe, and I think this is down to the religion element. And the divorce rates are much higher too. There are sociological elements that are really worth further analysis about the sex before marriage debate. Sex is natural, it is good, and it is good for you too.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper Sex is natural, sex is good...not everybody does it, but everybody should. Is that where you are going Dave?
Originally Posted By Labuda "We just believe in protecting an innocent life." What just went through my mind is not fit to print on LP in any way, shape, or form, but trust me - it would make a sailor blush. That being said, let me ask you this, Donny - does that mean that once a child has lied or bit his or her sister and they're no longer innocent you're ok with killing them at THAT point since innocence has been lost? That would sure fit with the typical Republican thinking - keep 'em alive while they're in the womb, then just have the government off 'em once they're out.
Originally Posted By Labuda "But if we really want to eliminate abortion then we need to make sure that we make it easy for those who need it to have access to birth control (i.e., Planned Parenthood) and for teaching more than just abstinence." That is an impossible dream. Yes, birth control and sex education is important, but you're still going to have rape, cases where the mother's life is in danger, and likely something else I'm unable to think of right now. Abortion is a necessary medical procedure. Just not a "nice" one in some regards.
