Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<I just think the numbers quoted by that site are way too high.>> All I can say is that the figures were provided by a PRO-monorail site that was attempting to show that monorails COULD BE run profitably. << No matter what the cost of building one is, monorail has the best chance of all transit modes of turning a profit.>> The Disney-style monorail, the Bombardier MVI (also builder of the new Las Vegas monorail) is anywhere from 4 to 20 times as expensive as the other monorail options listed. Now maybe Disney could expand its system with these other options. But you would end up with systems that were totally separate and could not share equipment. Whether or not this would be a major problem is debatable. Obviously busses and light rail could not share the existing monorail equipment either.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip ^^^ By the way... the fact that the brand new monorail in Las Vegas is a WDW style monorail shows that the costs are not pie in the sky estimates. They have recent actual construction costs to look at. This could well be why their cost is so much higher than the other systems listed. Real costs always have the tendency of being significantly greater than estimated costs.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Disney won't ever do light rail because there is too much liability. People get run over by light rail trains everyday in the U.S. Seems like where I am in San Diego, I am reading about someone getting run over by the trolley at least once a week. Can you imagine Disney dealing with the lawsuits over that one?>> I don't think it's just safety, although you bring up a very valid point, that would prevent a light rail option. Everyone I've spoken with that has any power at Disney or access to those who do say light rail has never been considered seriously. It's been more of a lip service kind of thing. Again, that doesn't mean it's completely the case, but I've heard it from multiple sources. The take at Disney is either expand the monorail system to some significant (although some would argue one beam might be significant!) degree or just keep adding buses and hope all the problems they bring will magically disappear with a dream and a touch of pixie dust. I had completely given up hope of seeing monorail expansion the last 10 years of Eisner's reign, but I still have some hope that Bob Iger will wake up and realize the importance of real transportation solutions for WDW ... you know the SPIRIT OF EPCOT THAT HAS GUIDED THE ENTIRE DEVELOPMENT OF THE WDW RESORT (according to the monorail spiel they used to run -- and may still -- on the Epcot to TTC run). To just say buses are cheaper yada, yada, yada is just like saying 'stay the course' ... just meaningless drivel.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<To just say buses are cheaper yada, yada, yada is just like saying 'stay the course' ... just meaningless drivel.>> So would you say that cost HASN'T driven darned near every decision made about WDW over the past 15 years? And if it has, why would it stop when it came to monorails?? Boy... you accuse ME of looking at the world through rose tinted glasses.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<All I can say is that the figures were provided by a PRO-monorail site that was attempting to show that monorails COULD BE run profitably.>> That doesn't make them accurate. It also doesn't make them hard and fast. Every situation is unique. No one had ever run a monorail in the hemisphere before Walt opened one in 1959. WDW's system was the first of its kind in the USA. I admit I don't have a clue what the REAL cost would be. But I have a lot of ideas about what the benefits would be. <<By the way... the fact that the brand new monorail in Las Vegas is a WDW style monorail shows that the costs are not pie in the sky estimates. They have recent actual construction costs to look at. This could well be why their cost is so much higher than the other systems listed. Real costs always have the tendency of being significantly greater than estimated costs.>> No doubt. ... But there's one cost that TWDC seems to have tried to delete from the equation in many aspects of its parks operations, not the least of which is WDW's transporation follies: the cost of doing business. Sometime you do something just because it is a needed cost. Even if you take a hit in your bottom line. Wasn't that the excuse behind the billions mindlessly tossed away for Go.com ... for FOX Family ... for DRE ... for the Mighty Ducks and Anaheim Angels (of Los Angeles, Manhattan Beach, Artesia, Carson, Los Feliz, Downey ...and a nasty corner of South Central) ... for Disney Store overexpansion ... for exec payoffs? I'll answer for you: YES, it was. And that's why I think regardless of the cost, monorail expansion is needed and smart for the long term growth, quality and guest satisfaction at WDW. Just like the forward-thinking leaders of Las Vegas figured out. Sadly, TWDC has few forward thinking execs in its parks division ... unless they're looking for their next bonus.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<So would you say that cost HASN'T driven darned near every decision made about WDW over the past 15 years?>> No. I absolutely believe that cost has been the deciding factor on almost everything at WDW for the past 10-15 years. Hence, the declining guest experience and quality of the product. <<And if it has, why would it stop when it came to monorails?? Boy... you accuse ME of looking at the world through rose tinted glasses.>> I think you missed what I was trying to get across (or maybe I did a poor job of 'splaining it, been a long day) but I don't think there is one reason EXCEPT cost for why monorail expansion hasn't happened. I do believe, however, that if Euro Disney hadn't of opened to financial difficulty and if Frank Wells hadn't died and if Eisner didn't get his dream of buying CapCities/ABC, that expansion would have likely happened. There's a reason it was planned (and footers planted for the beams) on the Epcot to Disney MGM Studios/Epcot Resorts line. Eisner wouldn't have spent the money and had the company go through the trouble of doing so if it wasn't going to happen. Unfortunately, all of the above happened and it just pushed transportation off the map as an issue for the most part ... especially when gas was $1 a gallon and buses were bought in bulk!
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Just like the forward-thinking leaders of Las Vegas figured out. >> Well so far at least the Vegas monorail has been pretty much a 100% failure. Pressure by taxi companies and other transit providers forced the monorail to build stations in back of the Casino Hotels resulting in them generally being at least two blocks off the strip. Why should I take a monorail at $5 per trip, have a very limited number of stops, and have to walk two blocks to the strip when I can take the Deuce for $5 a day and get off on the strip in front of any hotel I want? Now admittedly WDW would presumably not have the politics to deal with. But PLEASE don't hold up the Vegas monorail as a forward thinking success when in fact it has been pretty much a complete failure.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <By the way... the fact that the brand new monorail in Las Vegas is a WDW style monorail shows that the costs are not pie in the sky estimates. They have recent actual construction costs to look at. This could well be why their cost is so much higher than the other systems listed. Real costs always have the tendency of being significantly greater than estimated costs< one major difference...in Vegas the land under the monorail also had to be purchased - and that is a huge cost . In WDW they already own the land.
