Originally Posted By RoadTrip Seriously, using the New York Daily News as a serious news source? Maybe you could back that up with something from the Washington Times... ;-)
Originally Posted By Dabob2 The video is the video, RT. It was shown on basically every news website. The DN was just the first one that came up in google.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Destroying businesses is not protesting.<< Say people who named their political movement after the Boston Tea Party.
Originally Posted By ecdc <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/02/us/freddie-gray-autopsy-report-given-to-baltimore-prosecutors.html">http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05...ors.html</a> Freddy Gray's death has been ruled a homicide and the state attorney has said she intends to file charges against the police officers involved. Maybe, just maybe, the tide is turning against this kind of crap.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>I am 100% for people wanting to make a change. This does not accentuate change. This just makes people look like a-holes<< The violence didn't start with the protests. Have you seen the Baltimore Sun's reporting on the *millions* of dollars the state has had to pay out over the years because of police brutality? If you're going to jump on the condemning violence bandwagon, maybe start with the police.
Originally Posted By ecdc <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2015/04/30/wjz-exclusive-the-other-man-in-the-van-with-freddie-gray-breaks-his-silence/">http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/...silence/</a> And now the guy in the van has come forward to say the police distorted what he said to them. Color me shocked. What will it take? A police officer in South Carolina is charged with murder and the response is, "Well, the guy shouldn't have run ya know." Now an investigation in Baltimore says Freddie Gray shouldn't have been arrested, his death was a homicide, and the police officers involved will be charged with a crime. I can't wait for what's next: "Hey, maybe he shouldn't have been looking so thuggish." "Maybe he shouldn't have...uh...hey, he wasn't in that van for no reason ya know!" Here's a wild thought: maybe place blame where it belongs, on the cops who did this and who have now been charged with a crime.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer "Say people who named their political movement after the Boston Tea Party." That was a protest directly against the trade monopoly that the East India Company had and the taxes on the tea imposed by Parliament. The product destroyed was the product directly involved in the taxation and trade issues.
Originally Posted By Tikiduck One can only wonder if accountability for their actions will drive police departments into an even tighter, secretive, self defending state. We talk about the bad cops who perpetrate these outrages, but must remember that these same cops are being protected by the very upper levels of law enforcement. Winnowing out a few bad cops wont bring change, but holding police leaders accountable in cases of falsifying information may get results.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer Yes, the cops are to blame for the end result. But there is some culpability on the part of the victim as well. You can't die from a faulty parachute if you don't go skydiving to begin with.
Originally Posted By utahjosh >>That's not productive speech.<< How's your bootlicking going to solve the problem? There is a big difference between bootlicking and rational discussions of real issues.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>The product destroyed was the product directly involved in the taxation and trade issues.<< Sure. My analogy isn't to equate the two, but to suggest, at least at some level, the hypocrisy at play when people who dress up as the Sons of Liberty say destruction of private property isn't protest, it's just thuggery. (And, in all seriousness, it's much appreciated that someone actually understands the intricacies of the Boston Tea Party.)
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Well, having waited for the EVIDENCE, I now have a pretty good basis to form an opinion on this. It is clear to me that Gray was murdered by police for absolutely no reason. There was never even probable cause for his arrest.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Well, having waited for the EVIDENCE, I now have a pretty good basis to form an opinion on this. It is clear to me that Gray was murdered by police for absolutely no reason.<< While it's always a good idea to wait for evidence, why does it take such a clear-cut example for people to finally stop and say, "Oh, maybe the cops actually did straight up kill a dude." What if video tape emerged that showed Gray resisting arrest? Or what if he'd been arrested for vandalism and actually deserved to go to jail? It doesn't follow that he should end up dead. I think that's what a lot of these protesters are saying and it's why they didn't need to wait for the results of an investigation before saying Freddie Gray should still be alive. It's astounding we're even having the conversation. This sense that anything you do to end up in police custody somehow then makes your death less meaningful or somehow your fault is insane, and if we were talking about any other dynamic, the outrage would be acute. Imagine if a high school kid got caught stealing out of another kid's locker. He'd deserve to be in trouble, but what if he ended up dead in the principal's office? Again, when did we decide that if someone ends up dead in police custody, they *must've* done something to cause it?
Originally Posted By RoadTrip No, a person should never end up dead when being placed under arrest. But we've also seen videos where even after being tased a suspect will fight so violently that it will take 3-4 cops using extreme holds to finally subdue the person. When injury or death occurs in those situations you have to look at if the force used was excessive and a murder, or was appropriate to the situation and an unfortunate accident. In the case of Gray the evidence showed that he should have never been put under arrest in the first place, and once he was offered no real resistance. That makes it murder, not just the fact that he died.
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 74 homicides in Baltimore so far this year <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://data.baltimoresun.com/bing-maps/homicides/index.php?range=2015&district=all&zipcode=all&age=all&gender=all&race=all&cause=all&article=all&show_results=Show+results">http://data.baltimoresun.com/b...+results</a> Yet one gets all the outrage because hating cops is the in thing.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 I really, really can't stand that false equivalency. One gets all that outrage because the cops are supposed to be the good guys. They are not supposed to be killing people like, you know, common criminals. And when they do, they're supposed to be held accountable for it. And too often lately they haven't been. In nearly all those homicides cited, the perpetrator has been brought to justice or will be eventually. If that was not the case, there would be plenty of outrage. So stop with the false equivalency already.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Yet one gets all the outrage because hating cops is the in thing.<< Yes, people are just responding to this because it's a fad. That's it. If only we were as enlightened as you and able to resist following the crowd and doing the in thing, we'd realize this is all happening because...um...why do unarmed black men keep ending up dead at the hands of cops?
Originally Posted By RoadTrip There is a piece at nbcnews.com that gives some good context on how these things happen. It doesn't attempt to whitewash anything, but at least for me took some of the WTF out of it. <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/baltimore-unrest/freddie-gray-n352321">http://www.nbcnews.com/storyli...-n352321</a>
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 There is no false equivalency, a good majority of the black community does not care about the violence against each in their own communities. And those brave enough to speak out(remember the no snitch rule) are silenced. Could Freddie Gray's death have been prevented sure I put it 90% on the police. But regardless the police are not the bad guys in this situation.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox The ignorance in the above statement is stunning. I guess violating police department procedures is a-OK as long as the cops even *suspect* the citizen is guilty of something. And if the citizen dies as a result of violating those departmental procedures? Just an added bonus. There just a bunch of N|gg&r/Thugs, right?
