Originally Posted By DDMAN26 Post 96. So let me get something straight. Wanting black men to stop killing each other. To be father's to their children. Wanting families to stay intact are actually bad things? Oh no we can't have any of that .
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 Two officers killed in Mississippi last night <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/05/09/police-officers-shot-hattiesburg-miss/27072641/">http://www.usatoday.com/story/...7072641/</a>
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <Post 96. So let me get something straight. Wanting black men to stop killing each other. To be father's to their children. Wanting families to stay intact are actually bad things? Oh no we can't have any of that . > You're arguing for something he never argued against.
Originally Posted By barboy5 Maybe those two deserved what they got. There is no way to know unless you know how they treated others throughout their lives. If they were brutes then I'm happy they are gone. That would be music to my ears to know that scum, if even a small amount has been wiped away. If they treated others with dignity and respect then such a tragedy and really sad.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 "Maybe those two deserved what they got. " That's a terrible thing to say. To start with, you have no idea about these guys. Second, even if they were awful, no one deserves to be gunned down in the street. That's the point some of us try to make when a civilian is gunned down and the depressingly predictable "I bet he was no choirboy" comments crop up.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Did anyone say they were? And they've been caught and they'll be tried and almost certainly convicted. They will be held accountable. And the point some people miss is that the protests are about people NOT being held accountable when they kill. Sometimes, as on Staten Island, they don't even go to trial.
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 And again destroying businesses in your community is a criminal act so let's cut the word protests out
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <But in most situations the media portrays the cops as the villains> I don't think that's true. Most interactions between the cops and civilians simply aren't covered at all. When armed suspects are killed by cops, that tends to be covered only occasionally, and if so, the cops are generally portrayed as heroes. But when an unarmed man is killed, that does tend to make the news - for obvious reasons - and in a case like SC where the cop flat out lies about what happened because he didn't know it was being videotaped, or in Baltimore where they also lied about going straight to the station when in fact they took him on an intentional "rough ride" - well, I'd say the coverage was appropriate. <And again destroying businesses in your community is a criminal act so let's cut the word protests out> No, let's use the word protest where it's appropriate (which is usually) and differentiate between legit protest and opportunists who destroy businesses. We can actually walk and chew gum at the same time, can't we?
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Post 96. So let me get something straight. Wanting black men to stop killing each other. To be father's to their children. Wanting families to stay intact are actually bad things?<< Yes, it's a bad thing because of how grossly ignorant you are of the facts. For example, numerous studies have shown that black fathers are actually the most involved in their children's lives. But people like you don't know that, so you lecture them on "absentee fathers," unaware that your own race's track record is actually worse. You lecture about black men killing each other and remain silent about whites killing each other, then pay lip service to how much you hate all crime, even though you only manage to post when it's violence by black men. You know precisely jack squat about this stuff, but then you pop off and tell everyone who African Americans should behave, apparently clueless to just how absurd you sound, a privileged white man lecturing black people on what they're doing wrong. Hey, while you're at it, let's tell women what kind of mothers they ought to be. When your many, many errors and falsehoods are pointed out, you just pull even more fallacies out of your hat, building the house of cards with nonsense like, "What, I just want them blacks to stop killing each other."
Originally Posted By ecdc >>But in most situations the media portrays the cops as the villains.<< No, they don't. That's the outrage in your head talking again.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Yes, it's a bad thing because of how grossly ignorant you are of the facts. For example, numerous studies have shown that black fathers are actually the most involved in their children's lives.>> Lets have at least some semblance of honesty here. I'm pretty much on your side on this, but I have to call BS. I have no doubt that Black fathers who ARE WITH THEIR FAMILY are more involved with their kids than white fathers are. But you tell me, what percent of Black families are single parent families headed by a woman, and what percent of white families are single parent families headed by a woman? If we are ever going to understand and solve the problem, you have to at least admit what the hell it is.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>But you tell me, what percent of Black families are single parent families headed by a woman, and what percent of white families are single parent families headed by a woman?<< Sure, there's absolutely a higher percentage of single-parent families among black Americans than white, and there's a lot of reasons for that. But you've illuminated the problem: white Americans see a higher rate of single-parent families and they jump to the conclusion of "absentee fathers." Since when in the hell has not being married meant you're not involved in your child's life? Not being married does not equate with absentee fathers, but we've heard on these boards and just about everywhere else that it is.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I said nothing about "unwed mother" families. I said "single parent" meaning only one parent was present in the home with the children. I know a couple does not have to me married to be actively involved with their children. My wife's son and his girlfriend live together with their three-year-old son. The fact that they are not married yet makes absolutely no difference. But I'm quite certain there are many more homes in the Black community where only one parent is present. It is a major problem (and yes, I am aware of some of the historical and sociological reasons for that) and one that we as a society need to try to solve. A start would be to stop imprisoning so many young Black men for minor drug offenses.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>But I'm quite certain there are many more homes in the Black community where only one parent is present.<< But again, that's the problem. It all depends on the assumptions one makes and how the question is asked. What does one mean by being "present"? It's easy to see single-parent families and jump to the conclusion of absentee fathers. But the studies are clear: black fathers aren't absent, and they are more involved in their families than white fathers. So maybe posters on these boards should stop focusing on black pathology (the very definition of being racist) and look at other issues. I don't see, for example, anyone here asking what it is about the white community that makes white men less likely to be involved in their child's lives? Where are the posts about that? Where are the links to white leaders berating white Americans for their failures (since folks around here *love* to post videos of guys like Don Lemon and Bill Cosby critiquing black men)?
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I would be very curious to see links for a few of these numerous studies. I think having two parents in the home is a real plus... that just makes sense. Twice as many people involved in providing some care. Now I don't care if if is a man and a woman, two women or two men. I just think two is better than one.
Originally Posted By ecdc I hammer away at this because it is a fundamental issue in America today that comes down to a simple question: Are all the things that African Americans lag behind in (and it's pretty much everything)--college attendance, poverty and income, incarceration, employment, etc.--a function of black failure, are are they a function of white racism and supremacy? I would argue, and the numbers completely back me up, that this is a function of America's racist past and its foundation of white supremacy. That is the systemic issue. So white people can lecture young black men all they want on turning down their rap music and pulling up their pants. It is a proven fact that those things *DO NOT* change the experience of young black men in this country. This complete B.S. about pulling yourself up, that going out and getting a job, and being a responsible member of society fixes everything is a lie. It is a bald faced lie that white people have been saying for generations. It is a lie that says, "Act the way white people act, act the way we think you should behave, and all will be well." It. Is. A. Lie. Changing one's behavior can have small impacts on a micro level, but it does not change the fundamental systemic issues of white supremacy. Sure, if a black man wears a suit and tie instead of a t-shirt and sagging jeans, he may be less likely to be pulled over. But only slightly less likely; it does not solve the problem of white supremacy, because of course it can't. If I lock my doors at night, I'm less likely to be robbed, but it doesn't solve crime just because I locked my doors. And if I forget to lock my door and I get robbed, I'm still a victim of a system and it's not my fault that I got robbed anymore than it's a black man's fault that he got pulled over because he didn't dress right. Study after study after study shows this. One study showed that if you put a white-sounding name and a black-sounding name on the *exact* same resume, guess which name is much more likely to get a job interview? America is fundamentally, at its core, deeply racist. That is what this is about. It's not about the behavior of young black men, no matter how much ignorant white people want to focus on that.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I'm not saying it isn't based in racism. But saying that does absolutely no one any good. It doesn't solve the problem. What do we do to try to change things? Or do we just say "Well, nothing can be done. It is a deeply racist country. Sucks to be them."
