Originally Posted By 182 Romney probbly should have not used the term "Free Stuff" because the sad truth is people like me are paying for someone elses incredible expensive health care. I am sure in the President looks at what he wanted to do with ObamaCare and what he was forced by fellow Democrats create even he is embarrassed on what happened. RomneyCare was a state mandate (That I would have been very much against) I would like to see one of them say we need to bring down cost not just have the government pay for it.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer Like this, Donny? <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_yt9GT-Mas" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...t9GT-Mas</a>
Originally Posted By 182 So that video was in 2009 when the President was wanting single payer right ? and Tom has Health Care expenditures gone up or down from May 2009 to now ?
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Romney probbly should have not used the term "Free Stuff" because the sad truth is people like me are paying for someone elses incredible expensive health care." How is it free when you HAVE TO PAY FOR IT?
Originally Posted By TomSawyer Obama never pushed single payer health care, so the plan he was talking about in 2009 was essentially the same plan that was passed. He said a few times that he supported it, but he never campaigned on it or made it the centerpiece of any health care legislation he was promoting or campaigning on.
Originally Posted By 182 Let me end this by saying this. If my Wife got Breast cancer under my view of freedom it would be very scary and expensive to afford the help we would need. ObamaCare in that respect would be a good thing but to anyone who wants to live the lie that the current ObamaCare policy will not raise our taxes and be a strain on businesses and the middle class then I guess we will see. I like the danger of freedom to fail and that my money is best spent by me and so far from the video that Tom showed in 2009 the President taught Health Care expenditures could drop by 2 trillion but they didn't they continue to rise. Health Care & Housing is very important to a humans life so if your human you better work hard to have both (I have). If you need a hand up lets have the government help with limits and standards but I hate it when it becomes a handout.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer Health care already puts a strain on small businesses and the middle class, Donny. It puts a strain on large businesses and the poor as well. What Obamacare does is to greatly reduce the freeloaders who use health care but who don't get insurance or pay their bills. It reduces freeloaders by requiring people to get health insurance, and by setting up programs where they can get it either from insurance pools or from for-profit health insurance providers. It makes sure that when hospitals treat someone when required to do so by law they will be paid for it. If you don't like things being a handout, then you should be all over Obamacare.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "So, Romney likens the African American audience at the NAACP to a bunch of people who want free stuff - playing handily into the stereotypes that many of his supporters hold about African Americans." There is quite a lot of truth in that stereotype. This is the basis for why Democrats have blacks in such a stranglehold.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>There is quite a lot of truth in that stereotype.<< What racist nonsense.
Originally Posted By gurgitoy2 Truth, my foot! I agree, that's a pretty racist, or at best biased opinion. It's actually white people who collect the most welfare...so, yeah, who likes free stuff again? <a href="http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1077/is_n2_v48/ai_12970819/" target="_blank">http://findarticles.com/p/arti...2970819/</a>
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones But it's getting to the point where advocating for smaller government is becoming a racist idea because so many blacks are dependent on government. Many blacks vote the way they do because many rely on government jobs or government programs. So of course you would not vote against your own best interests (on the surface, that is). It would actually be better for blacks in the long run to vote against dependency on government. I'm not saying Romney is the answer as he's just as bad as Obama, but probably someone third-party like Gary Johnson. I fear the same is happening to Hispanics but Hispanics are not yet as much of a hive mind as blacks and there is a wider range of political thought among Latinos. "It's actually white people who collect the most welfare...so, yeah, who likes free stuff again?" Consider proportionality. In actuality, more whites and less blacks should be on welfare.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 I'll be sure to tell my black friends about their "hive mind." What's the emoticon for demonstrating bemusement at someone confusing prejudice with knowledge (while congratulating himself on his "superior knowledge") combined with disgust for racist crap?
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Many blacks vote the way they do because many rely on government jobs or government programs.<< Evidence? >>I fear the same is happening to Hispanics but Hispanics are not yet as much of a hive mind as blacks and there is a wider range of political thought among Latinos.<< Evidence? I'm all for different opinions, but I'm starting to think SPP is right—this is more "gotcha" trolling than anything. Or maybe he believes it, pick your poison.
Originally Posted By gurgitoy2 Yeah, post 32...what?? Where is the proof for any of those statements? Hive mind? Only blacks are capable of this, for some reason? Why, exactly, should more whites be on welfare?
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones The evidence for both is found in the way blacks and Hispanics vote. According to exit polls, 96% of blacks voted for Obama in 2008. I think it will be the same in 2012. Hispanics certainly lean Democrat, but it is not a foregone conclusion that they will vote Democrat. 66% of the Hispanic vote went for Obama, a record for a Democrat. I think less will go for him in 2008 because the historical aspects of his election have somewhat waned and his spectacularly failed presidency as far as the economy goes. Here's a good commentary from none other than Commentary magazine on the subject of the Hispanic vote. I see countless articles on CNN and other sites about how the influx of Hispanics into the country is a problem for Republicans. Maybe, but at least there's an argument there. You cannot, on the other hand, argue that blacks are going to vote for anyone other than the Democrat. <a href="http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2012/04/24/myths-about-thispanic-vote-rubio-republican/" target="_blank">http://www.commentarymagazine....ublican/</a> "Kraushaar, however, is spot on when he punctures the widely held idea that Hispanic political identity is static rather than dynamic and likely to be heavily influenced by economic and social advances by immigrant communities. As he writes, it appears that Hispanic political identification with the left decreases markedly as immigrants and their children become settled. That means that unlike African-Americans, whose social mobility has been more affected by a past history of racism, and Jews, an immigrant group many of whose members have embraced liberalism as part of their religious faith rather than as merely a political avocation, Hispanics are getting more Republican the longer they are in the country. That will present a problem for President Obama and other Democrats who assume they can use the immigration issue to increase their electoral advantage." When counted up in the statistics, I'm certainly counted as a "Hispanic voter." My ancestry confirms it. I can show you the census data. But I'm fourth generation, far removed from the immigrant experience and fully entrenched in American culture. I hold both liberal and conservative views, as well as views that would be considered anti-Hispanic or anti-immigrant by some (of course I disagree). It's going to depend on how many Hispanics are like this.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 You provided evidence only that blacks vote more solidly Democratic than Hispanics, which is well known - not the "why." People vote the way they do for many reasons, and to chalk it up to people wanting "free stuff" or having "hive mind"... well, I'll just let that speak for itself.
Originally Posted By ecdc <a href="http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias" target="_blank">http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/C...ion_bias</a>
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones gurgitoy2, there are different measures and different outcomes depending on which years you use and which welfare programs you use. There is no real program called "welfare." It's just a catchall term that people used to refer to all the different programs there are, like TANF, Medicaid, food stamps like SNAP and section 8 (and I do not mean the projects, I mean vouchers to help you pay rent). I have heard some people call social security welfare. If that's the case, then whites really are the welfare queens. But the argument that social security is a welfare program is weak, as you are forced to pay into the program and participate. Blacks receive less social security because they have lower life expectancies and higher unemployment, so they pay less and live fewer years to draw benefits. As far as the actual figures go, I would suggest you go out and use Google to discover the research on who gets welfare yourself. Just remember the idea of proportionality. And even when you count *only* people in poverty, whites are still less likely to receive benefits from all the different programs. The source is Table 2 on page 5. https://resources.oncourse.iu.edu/access/content/group/SP10-BL-POLS-Y490-26253/schram-contextualizing%20welfare%20policy.pdf There may be different opinions and theories over why this is, why blacks have such poor outcomes, but that's the reality.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones Confirmation bias is irrelevant because it could easily happen to you. You may ignore the alarming increase in violent flash mobs by young blacks. You may ignore the daily black on black violence in places like Chicago and only focus on the rare case when a white person shoots up the workplace (whites are over-represented here, but that would not be controversial to say). You may be the person depicted in this comic. <a href="http://i.imgur.com/zXkyw.jpg" target="_blank">http://i.imgur.com/zXkyw.jpg</a> I don't know. We are people sharing ideas, perceptions and experiences. Your perception may be different from mine, but it's going to be a tall order to figure out which perception of reality is the correct one.
