Originally Posted By fkurucz >>And I don't think Ryan will alienate as many moderates as Palin did<< This moderate thinks he's even scarier than Mama Grizzlie. She was an incompetent dweeb who spouted right wing propaganda. Ryan can actually make it come true.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <The country will be taking in three trillion less but that's magically neutral by closing unnamed loopholes?> That's what he's hoping people will swallow without asking too many questions. It's the media's job to ask those questions; I wish I could be more confident that they will do so. And again, read that article on what his tax plan would do to Romney's 2010 taxes, and for zillionaires like him who make the bulk of their money from capital gains, dividends and interest. Romney used some deductions that could be considered loopholes (like the $77,000 deduction - a larger deduction than most Americans' annual salaries - for the dressage horse) to reduce his rate from 15% to 13.9%. But Ryan wants to eliminate the tax on capital gains, dividends and interest altogether. So right there, you can see his numbers can't possibly add up. Romney goes from 13.9% to 0.82% and even if the dressage horse deduction and others were eliminated, that doesn't come close to evening out what Romney would pay, because nearly all his income is capital gains/dividends/interest which would go down to 0. And Romney is hardly unique. MOST zillionaires have the bulk of their income from those sources, not a paycheck like most of us. So you could eliminate all the loopholes you like; most zillionaires wouldn't even need them any more because the bulk of their income wouldn't even be taxed. So don't believe the glib Mr. Ryan when he says so blithely that his plan would be "revenue neutral." The only way it could be revenue-neutral is if us non-zillionaires make up the difference.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 >>And I don't think Ryan will alienate as many moderates as Palin did<< <This moderate thinks he's even scarier than Mama Grizzlie. She was an incompetent dweeb who spouted right wing propaganda. Ryan can actually make it come true.> Yeah, but you actually pay attention to things.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>The country will be taking in three trillion less but that's magically neutral by closing unnamed loopholes?<< They might be unnamed, but I can guarantee you that they will hit the middle class and not the rich. These guys won't relent until the rich pay no taxes at all, leaving the entire burden to the shrinking middle class.
Originally Posted By ecdc The media narrative that emerged over the weekend, apart from just how darned "serious" Paul Ryan is, was that both parties are just elated by this pick. Ever the cynic, I sure hope Democrats don't think this is a slam dunk because of Ryan's awful policies. Like Dabob2 pointed out, we pay attention to this stuff. Most people don't. While I was watching Ryan speak over the weekend, I was struck by one big thing: He's a very likable fellow. The "serious" claim comes because he sounds serious, he sounds smart, and he sounds like he knows what he's talking about. How many Americans will bother to see what's in the Ryan budget and just how vague it is and how it doesn't really solve anything? While Democrats party and insist that Romney just lost Florida by picking Ryan, I'm picturing a million retired grandmas staring at their TV thinking, "Well, what a nice young man."
Originally Posted By plpeters70 <<While Democrats party and insist that Romney just lost Florida by picking Ryan, I'm picturing a million retired grandmas staring at their TV thinking, "Well, what a nice young man.">> That's exactly what I was thinking, and am worrying about. He has all the right "looks" to make a successful politician, and the things that scare most of us about him on here are mostly things you'd actually have to be paying attention to to understand. The only thing that makes me hope is the whole Medicare thing. If the Obama team can play that up, he might be able to worry those retirees, and soon-to-be retirees to vote for him instead - or at least stay home and not vote for Romney.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <<I'm picturing a million retired grandmas staring at their TV thinking, "Well, what a nice young man.">> Yes, I worry about that, too. He's very slick and very glib, and that's all a lot of people will care about. On 60 Minutes, he blithely repeated his claims that his budget would be revenue neutral and Romney blithely repeated his claim that the wealthy would pay just as large a share, and that middle income people would get a tax cut. No details of course - just those blithe assertions. Both of them are so oily and phony it kinda makes my skin crawl, especially when you see them together.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer The Ryan budget is nothing less than a plan to force the end of the federal government and to devolve all power to the states. It promotes plutocracy at the expense of democracy.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Why, that nice young man wouldn't do that!! We have to make sure any swing voters we know understand that yes, he WOULD do that.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost Back a few years ago my parents voted for a guy that was 'certifiably insane'. His platform included UFO's and spirits. My parents never bothered to even check out anything about him. When asked why they voted for him their replay was...He had a nice French name! (sigh)
Originally Posted By TomSawyer "His platform included UFO's and spirits" Sounds like Romney's religion
Originally Posted By utahjosh Yeah, when you're going to bash someone's sacredly held beliefs, at least get your facts right.
Originally Posted By ecdc LMAO! and If you don't want something made fun of, don't make it so ridiculous. If I claim to believe in a giant green unicorn, then say "Hey, that's my sacred belief, be nice!" I can probably expect to have it be made fun of. Of course, I think pretty much anything can and should be made fun of. Sacred cows can and are funny.
Originally Posted By fkurucz ^^Quite right. Romney's religion tells the story of a fictitious New World Hebrew civilization, and an extraterrestrial world called Kolob (but no flying saucers)
Originally Posted By mawnck <a href="http://gawker.com/5934271/how-paul-ryan-will-screw-you" target="_blank">http://gawker.com/5934271/how-...crew-you</a>
Originally Posted By andyll Ryan, and the GOP, are trying the Reagan method of tax cuts. Reagan had big tax cuts for the middle class... huge tax cuts for the rich. Then he took all the effectiveness of the middle class tax cuts away by removing deductions and increasing the payroll tax. So Reagan ended up having the biggest tax cuts of all time for the rich and the biggest tax increase of all time for the middle class. The GOP is gonna try the same thing. They'll remove deductions like the mortage interest deduction. Since the real rich like Romney have little non-investment income it won't hurt them at all. But it will hammer the middle class. Most of the proposed changes will be dropped in congress because democrats won't vote for them so you'll end up with huge tax cuts with nothing to offset them and the democrats will take the blame.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer But Reagan did something that Ryan isn't planning on doing - deficit spending. Reagan poured tons of borrowed money into building up the military, and all of that money created jobs across the country. Tax cuts don't create very many jobs. Reagan did the same thing Roosevelt did - used borrowed money to create jobs.
Originally Posted By andyll <<But Reagan did something that Ryan isn't planning on doing - deficit spending>> Ryan's plan does not balance the budget until 2022 and has no cuts to defense/security spending... so there is still plenty of deficit spending.
