Originally Posted By Mr X ***You have to understand that most of you on here are far left of an average American. No disrespect whatsoever*** No disrespect taken, but you're actually wrong on this I'm afraid. I've been reading lately, of all things, the Sean Hannity forums. And I can tell you that, while sure they have their truly wing nut characters (abortion for rape victims, let's kill Social Security, etc), you'd be surprised at how many rather moderate Republicans and even true independents are out there who sound, for the most part, like most WE posters here. Reasonable positions with well thought out pros and cons, that sort of thing. Now, what does any of *that* have to do with the fact that Reagan was a lousy President? I dunno. Frankly I don't get it, to me a great Republican President would be someone like Eisenhower, not doddering Reagan who raised taxes a bunch of times, created huge deficits, and committed scandalous crimes that were certainly on a Nixonian level of malice if not even worse. If you really think that what you read on LP represents "the far left" of America, and that most Americans tend to think far differently, I suggest you go and visit some REALLY left wing sites and see what they have to say. Trust me, this place is pretty much in the middle, maybe a tad to the left on certain issues. ***but most Americans dont HATE anyone with an R beside their name like the majority on here*** I didn't used to, either. They earned it. ***So, when people say " he made usa feel good again", obviously they arent referring to people on the far left who cant stand any Republican*** Sounds so nice, and sure he did have that grandfatherly charm thing going on and all that, but what he really did was lull the nation into a false sense of security while setting up 30 year financially reckless timebombs that we're all suffering under today. But at least he made us feel all warm and fuzzy!
Originally Posted By mawnck >>You have to understand that most of you on here are far left of an average American.<< Prove it at the ballot box in 2012, my friend. The so-called conservative "majority" has become emboldened to show their true colors. We'll see how that goes.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 "but most Americans dont HATE anyone with an R beside their name like the majority on here" I don't hate Republicans. My parents are Rebublicans. As is one of my sisters. As are a number of good friends I respect. I love all of them. Now, none are far right wingnuts, but all are decidedly Republcans, and I'm pretty sure they all voted for REagan twice. My post wasn't hate. It was a reasoned explanation of why I didn't like his policies and why I didn't think he was a good president. That's allowed, you know.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>It was a reasoned explanation of why I didn't like his policies and why I didn't think he was a good president. That's allowed, you know. << No no, Reagan had no flaws. Therefore, if someone claims that he wasn't the greatest President ever, then the only possible explanation is that the person hates Republicans. Makes perfect sense. Obamacare Socialist Muslim 2nd Amendment Apple Pie Take My Country Back Illegals Unions Spudnuts. Wake up!
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<***You have to understand that most of you on here are far left of an average American. No disrespect whatsoever*** No disrespect taken, but you're actually wrong on this I'm afraid.>> I'm not so sure X old buddy. I'd have agreed with you before moving to SW Missouri, but not any more. You have no idea of the extreme level of conservatism that exists once you get away from the Northeast, the West Coast, and a few relatively liberal states like Minnesota. Although I think I am very middle of the road, perhaps conservative by LP standards, I'm considered extremely liberal where I live now. Both GW Bush and McCain won this area by a 2-1 margin. In most county races the only REAL election is the primary (assuming you are Republican). There are rarely Democrat contenders. In those few cases where a brave individual chooses to trash his time and money by running as a Democrat, they rarely get more than 25% of the vote. Because of the large population on the West Coast and the Northeast I'm not sure folks like these are a majority, but they come pretty close. I think liberals do themselves a disservice when they refuse to acknowledge just how conservative much of the country is.
Originally Posted By Mr X Oh, I don't doubt that there are 20-25% of folks out there (and that goes for both sides, really) who are off the wall...and when you move into a state that's full of them, you've got something more like 55-60% of everyone you meet being pretty much extremists. Couple that with the fact that there are an number of fairly more reasoned people who keep their mouth shut about it (I've read that often on left wing sites from people living in red state hells ), and it's highly likely going to feel like the whole country is FAR more extreme than it really is. Let's face it, the country swings back and forth and doesn't REALLY care much about the extreme ends of either philosophy. Obama won handily, and before him the Republican BARELY won, and before him Clinton trounced his rivals twice (including a sitting Republican president but I'd say that Reagan fatigue plus a crappy economy spelled doom for Daddy Bush). In any case, I hardly think it logical to assume that "most" people in the country feel the way clearly extremist right wingers do. My old college buddy LOVES to say stuff like that. "MOST Americans this and MOST Americans that", including the silly stuff like "MOST Americans don't want health care" (which as we know is an amalgamation of discontent between the libertarians who think that ANYTHING like that "goes too far", coupled with the liberal who think not nearly enough was done). Just sayin.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>I think liberals do themselves a disservice when they refuse to acknowledge just how conservative much of the country is.<< SW Missouri = not typical then. I've lived in Florida, Tennessee, and three different regions of North Carolina. Plenty of neanderthal conservatives in all of them, but overall moderate. See also: 2008 Presidential election. PS - If I were you I'd move.
Originally Posted By gadzuux The numbers may not be on the side of conservatives, but when you measure them by geography, they clearly dominate. Because of the way our representation is set up, the fifty state model gives them much more power than they would otherwise have - you end up with thirty or so states that vote conservative and republican in rural and semi-rural areas. The result is that a vote in Wyoming or North Dakota carries much more weight than a vote in New York or California.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 ^^^ I'd agree with this to the point that I live outside Chicago...in this state the Democrats run everything and have for 50+ years- and absolute power has lefd to a state 49th in debt, 48th in education and corruption beyodn anyones wildest dreams ( I believe if the GOP ran this unchecked for the same period of time the outcome would be the same btw) - my vote means nothing here because the unions and government workers and Cook Couty elect everyone. Our current governor who claims he had a 'mandate' to raise state income taxes 66 2/3% this year and state company taxes 75%- because he won a total of 3 of 109 counties. That's right 3 lousy counties but one of them was Cook. margin or 19000 votes of 3.5 million cast- yet again won 3 counties and we're stuck with this bum. Why ? because he promised the state workers union he would lay no one off..and he passed the tax increase in a lame duck session before his buddies left office- all ouf whom who voted for the tax increase and left office- have been given new jobs with the state-- makes me ill here So my vote means crap here..the conclusions are set before the election starts - which is why we may be the first state in bankruptcy-- yes even ahead of California.
Originally Posted By disneysharks2 God bless you Mr President. How we need you now. If you could only see how low your office has sunk. Maybe you could have saved the country you loved so, but I fear it may be to late to save even if you where here to help.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Yep... the kooks have taken over the House and we are beyond redemption.
Originally Posted By disneysharks2 >>OK. So the guy created a massive debt and sleep-walked through his second term.<< Wow! Someone needs a calculator and a history book. Massive debt, Obama has given us more debt in his first year then Reagan did in 8 years. The sad thing is that people choose to remain ignorant of the facts, when all they need to do is pick up a book.
Originally Posted By disneysharks2 >>Ronald who?<< Oh, you know, the fifth guy on Mt. Rushmore<< Used to think that might not happen but even a Obama is now trying to act like he is Reagan. I mean it's funny because Obama is so weak and Reagan was so strong. The funniest thing is when Obama called himself the Gipper last week, it was so funny seeing this complete failure of a man trying to get respect that everyone knows he will never get, or deserve.
Originally Posted By disneysharks2 >>From a leading moderate newspaper ;-)<< Lolololol Leading moderate newspaper! Lololol
Originally Posted By disneysharks2 >>You have to understand that most of you on here are far left of an average American. No disrespect whatsoever, but most Americans dont HATE anyone with an R beside their name like the majority on here. So, when people say " he made usa feel good again", obviously they arent referring to people on the far left who cant stand any Republican.<< People here think their moderates, not kidding they really do!
Originally Posted By disneysharks2 >>My post wasn't hate. It was a reasoned explanation of why I didn't like his policies and why I didn't think he was a good president. That's allowed, you know.<< Reasoned! Lololololol Oh my my I have never seen anything like this. Beam me up Scotty.....
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Reagan is directly responsible for the kicking and screaming of people who say raising the tax rate on millionaires 2% is socialism*** And he did it while raising taxes 11 times. The disconnect is legendary.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <Reasoned! Lololololol Oh my my I have never seen anything like this. Beam me up Scotty.....> Yes, it was reasoned. You could, of course, try to respond to it with specifics and facts, but that's obviously not what you do, Beau. And the fetishization of Reagan has gone from the merely head-scratching to the downright creepy.
Originally Posted By disneysharks2 I found these quotes from the Great Man. There just so insightful, and at time so funny. I’m sure all people here of good will here will enjoy them. “Accepting a government grant with its accompanying rules is like marrying a girl and finding out her entire family is moving in with you before the honeymoon” “When those who are governed do too little, those who govern can, and will, do too much.” “We make a living by what we get; we make a life by what we give.” “I’ve always believed that a lot of the troubles in the world would disappear if we were talking to each other instead of about each other.” “The kind of government that is strong enough to give you everything you need is also strong enough to take away everything that you have.” “If government subsidized beaches, we would have a shortage of sand.” “Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first.” “I’ve already lived about twenty years longer than my life expectancy at the time I was born. That’s a source of annoyance to a great many people.” God bless that man!
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Some more: “We are trying to get unemployment to go up, and I think we’re going to succeed.” "I am not worried about the deficit. It is big enough to take care of itself.” “Trees cause more pollution than automobiles.” “A few months ago, I told the American people I did not trade arms for hostages. My heart and my best intentions still tell me that’s true, but the facts and evidence tell me it is not.” And perhaps the most telling, both about Reagan and those who fetishize him: “Facts are stupid things.”
