Originally Posted By bean Thu 1/24/2008 6:07a "I did not mind that Donald and jose took over the Mexico pavilions " But Bean, Jose is not even Mexican. It's actually rather insulting to both Mexico and Brazil. Jovn, i have no idea why you would think that those two characters would be an insult to Mexico or Brazil. First of all those characters were created during World War II as a way to gain goodwill with Latin America. Also Jose Carioca was actually created as a Brazilian native which supposeldy was born in Vila Xurupita in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. Also his first name is inspired by the popular Brazilian cartoonist José Carlos de Britto e Cunha. His last name, Carioca, is a Brazilian word used to describe a native of Rio de Janeiro. His creators also came up with a whole lineage of family memebrs born in diferent locations of Brazil. José Carioca has become so popular in Brazil that they even created a nickname for him "Zé" as a sign of affection. Panchito Pistolas, also part of the Three cabelleros created during world war II has Mexico as his birth Place. Although there are no specific records of his family. It is believed that he had a girl friend named "chiquita" which appeared in other cartoons. Chiquita was also known as Clara Cluck. Panchito along with his horse Senor mArtinez appeared in other shorts made for the latin public. Both of these characters have become so well known and admired by Latin America. Eventhough both Panchito and Jose have been pretty much been forgotten here in the States, they are some of the most popular characters in Latin America. Their comic books along with Donald Duck and the rest of the Mcduck family are some of th most highly sold pieces of reading entertainment for both young and adults. Lets also not forget that movies like three caballeros or saludos amigos used these characters to show the many locations of Latin America which Mexico is part of. So if you have any written proof that the characters are offensive or an insult to Brazil, Mexico or any of the Latin countries i would like to see it. Since I am from Latin decent I could assure you were not. We do not get easily offended by the use of cartoon characters. Another reminder the pavilions are sponsored by the country they represent and the use of the characters were most likely discussed with the sponsor.
Originally Posted By Britain I think Jonvn was implying that using a Brazilian parrot in a Mexican pavilion smacks of American ignorance and that there's a great deal of difference between Mexico and Brazil. If that was his assessment, he's wrong (please correct me, Jonvn, if I'm the one getting things wrong). Donald is American, Jose is Brazilian, and Panchito is Mexican. So the three of them are performing on Panchito's home turf. I see no problem with that.
Originally Posted By Liberty Belle >>I just don't get why American Disney fans on a DISNEY SITE... DO NOT UNDERSTAND when their overseas counterparts express a desire to visit the US for the main/sole purpose of visiting A FRIKKIN DISNEY PARK<< On my last trip in November I went to Miami for 3 nights, WDW for 7, LA for 3 nights and Disneyland for 6 nights. So obviously, it was almost an entirely Disney trip but I was surprised to cop flack for it on these boards. You'd think of all the places people here would understand! What it came down to for me was it wasn't my first trip to the US and unless I drop dead or all airlines stop flying from Australia to the States, it won't be my last. I probably wouldn't have liked for my first trip to involve so little of the "real America", but it was my 7th trip and I wanted to maximise my time at the Disney parks. I've seen most of the areas I REALLY want to see in the US, and the rest can wait. It doesn't affect my trip if someone thinks I shouldn't spend so much time at the Disney parks, but I don't see why it affects those people if that's what I choose to do, either ... (And we had a fantastic trip!)
Originally Posted By Bob Paris I know! Some of these people act like you are spending THEIR money on your hard earned overseas trip to indulge the very passions that bring ALL OF US to this and other Disney boards. Personally, I feel the being an AP holder and visiting DL three times per week is a little too much but then, if I had an AP and lived nearby maybe I'd do the same thing. What I am saying is, our sum total over our various trips wouldn't even come close to the time most people here have spent at the parks.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Jovn, i have no idea why you would think that those two characters would be an insult to Mexico or Brazil." I honestly don't mean to be rude, but that you don't even realize why it is wrong is actually part of the problem. Look: The pavilion is MEXICO. And what you put in it was an AMERICAN and a BRAZILIAN. Mexico is not Latin America, and people from that part of the world are proud of the actual countries they are really from. I mean, Brazil doesn't even speak Spanish. The language there is Portugese. You go tell someone from Guatemala that they are the same as a Mexican, and you'll get an earful. They don't like it. Why not put the Scrooge McDuck cartoon character in the French pavilion? It's the same thing. Or put Peter and the Wolf into England? It is inappropriate, and the only thing that keeps people from going HUH? is ignorance about both Jose and Latin America in general. "Also Jose Carioca was actually created as a Brazilian native which supposeldy was born in Vila Xurupita in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil." That would make him, as I said, Brazilian. As you mention, his very name implies being from Brazil. He is extremely Brazilian. You keep talking about how he's popular....in BRAZIL. Brazil is not Mexico. I know the history of these characters very well. I've actually seen the movies they were originally in. So yes, I completely agree with you he's from Brazil and is very Brazilian. So, you know what? He belongs in a BRAZIL pavilion. He's not from Mexico. What are you going to put in the Brazil pavilion? Pedro from Chile? It's screwed up. Panchito is Mexican. That character is Mexican. Of course, he's dressed as a bandito, but at least he is Mexican. It really is very chauvanistic to equate Mexico with all of Latin America, and Saludos Amigos did not do that, specifically with direct intent to not do that. Or is Mexico a special pavilion unlike all the others where instead of representing one country, it takes on all of an entire continent filled with individual countries. Including countries that Mexico is not even on the same continent with? "So if you have any written proof " The characters by themselves are not offensive, I never said that. What is offensive is your idea that all of Latin America is one big Mexico. When Walt was traveling to South America to make Saludos Amigos, the thing he found was that each individual country considers itself distinct from the others. This is why his film had segments from individual countries in it. If you want "written proof," go read up on how the original films were made, and why they ended up having these characters in them like this. It is the use of these characters in a Mexican pavilion that is improper, not the characters themselves. You will not likely find too many people caring about this because they don't even realize what's going on here, and that likely includes the sponsor. They don't know who the characters are, or where they come from. But if they did, they'd probably not appreciate it. Aside from that, the simple fact is that you stuck characters from the wrong country in the pavilion. But you know who should care? You folks at Disney should care. At least a little bit. It's your product that's going out there. It shouldn't be up to some guy on the internet to tell you folks why Walt Disney made Saludos Amigos as it ended up, or that your own character being Brazilian does not belong in a pavilion about a country on an entirely separate continent. It's not even like putting Scrooge McDuck in France. It's more like putting Belle in Morocco. Or Jasmine in Italy. Or is it just that like everything else at Disney now, the themes to the pavilions that represent certain countries are no longer meaningful? It's not that I'm really that upset by it, but honestly, it really does smack of American ignorance. "Donald is American, Jose is Brazilian, and Panchito is Mexican. So the three of them are performing on Panchito's home turf. I see no problem with that." What other country in World Showcase conflagurates all the nations in a region (across two continents, no less) into one single country? Aside from it being just another annoyingly intrusive cartoon, it's not even properly themed to the area it has been placed. No big shock there, given Disney's near total abandonment of everything that made their parks what they are. Basically, the reason it is a problem is because it is very typical of how Americans see everything south of the Rio Grande as one big country. It is really insulting, and it is not done with any other country in World Showcase. So it reinforces that idea, whereas in Saludos Amigos, the people at Disney understood the issues and did not go that route at all. It's really not that big a deal. World War III isn't exactly going to start because of this, and I suppose it's cute enough for whoever it is for. I thought the previous version of the ride was perfectly fine as it was, though. It's a Small Mexican World sort of thing. I'd like to see more rides like this and Maelstrom in World Showcase, actually. It would be nice if they were not so very dumbed down, though. It really is shame to see such a sad decline in thought that goes into their attractions.
Originally Posted By jonvn "I went to Miami for 3 nights, WDW for 7, LA for 3 nights and Disneyland for 6 nights" If I were traveling to the USA from Australia for a period of time, the things to see would be: 1) Washington DC 2) NYC 3) SF 4) WDW Those are the main things a visitor should look at going to. You could spend a week in each of them, really. That's saying quite a lot about WDW, and how it rates up there. I am not even including places like Chicago, Seattle, or LA. While those are good places, I think my list is pretty much the must see things in this country, and if you don't have time to do them, do them when you can.
Originally Posted By jonvn I was just in O'Hare the other week, and everyone was completely surly who worked there. Incredibly so. It did not leave me with a good impression of wanting to visit the place.
Originally Posted By land fan For the most part I found Chicagoans to be very friendly, down to Earth people. O'Hare is an extremely busy airport. Maybe the employees were a little stressed out the day you were there. Chicago is spectacular. If you get a chance, see the downtown area and Lakefront. It's a city lovers dream come true! And at night the city skyline looks magical. Although I would reccomend visiting during the warmer weather months.
Originally Posted By nbodyhome I'm not sure I could even say where someone "should" go in the US. There are a lot of lovely places. The Smoky Mountains, San Diego, the Berkshires (I like the mountains more than the ocean), Yosemite, Las Vegas, etc. There is a lot I've not seen yet, like Chicago. I have family in the DC area, I'd not spend a full week out that way, but maybe 4 days. I visited SF last year to see family and loved it.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo When Europeans ask me where to go in the US, in no particular order I always recommend: San Francisco Yosemite/Sequoia Ntl parks/Lake Tahoe DL/USH San Diego Death Valley Las Vegas Yellowstone Grand Canyon Chicago New York and Niagra Falls Washington DC WDW Having been all those places, and more, I am happy to return to Disney resorts (well used to be).
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo But I believe Catfish has been to many of these places already. The thing is folks, a lot of the cities in the US have similar counterparts elsewhere around the globe. It is the Mountains and National Parks, Deserts, and Disney parks that are very different than elsewhere around the globe.
Originally Posted By Mr X You guys all left out Boston... Maybe I'm a little prejudiced it being my hometown and all, but I find it a great city with nice historical stuff, great food, and lots to do. But anyway, I've never been to Washington D.C. so that's next on MY personal list if I ever get back that way (my sister lives there).
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Boston has a personal appeal as an American, but for example I would have thought it would have little to offer people used to a place like let's say London?
Originally Posted By Mr X Maybe, I've never been to London. But I think that's a little like saying there's no need to visit Tokyo because you've already seen Hong Kong, wouldn't you say? Sure Boston probably IS one of if not the most "European" cities in America, but it's still got it's own personality and charm (but plenty of Bad Weather just like jolly old England lol). I suppose when it comes right down to it Victoria Island B.C. is a lot more "brittish" right? But that doesn't mean I want to skip London because I've been to the island. Besides, there's a lot more to New England than just Boston, some very beautiful areas to see ESPECIALLY in the fall.
Originally Posted By Mr X Speaking of which, if you were to expand the list to include all of North America, I would say Vancouver and Victoria Island are outstanding places to visit. <a href="http://www.vancouverisland.com/Regions/towns/?townID=4064" target="_blank">http://www.vancouverisland.com /Regions/towns/?townID=4064</a>
Originally Posted By nbodyhome I've never been to Boston. Never been to Seattle, never to Texas (except through the airport), nor Hawaii and Alaska which I'll also add - even though they are off the mainland. I grew up in NJ, and the Poconos were close by - very pretty. I went to Stockbridge, MA a number of years back (my stepfather had been painted numerous times by Norman Rockwell as a kid, so that was more of a personal trip). But a visit to Stockbridge is like visiting Monet's Gardens in Paris - right out of a painting. Niagara Falls is beautiful, there is also St. Augustine in Florida. I've also never been to New Orleans. The last time I was in NYC was when the Worlds Trade Center was there. At one of the homes I grew up in NJ, I could see the skyline on a clear day. Trees have grown in since that time, so it's not visible anymore. Not that there would be much skyline left. I'm surprised when visitors spend so many weeks here - not because I don't think they should, but we just aren't some sort of cultural center. I actually like to visit places with museums and history, but I guess you already have that in Europe.
