Originally Posted By ecdc How insane are the gun nuts? This insane: <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/378959/rip-maya-angelou-proud-gun-owner-and-user-tim-cavanaugh">http://www.nationalreview.com/...avanaugh</a>
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: SingleParkPassHolder, you are nothing more than a cyber bully. So you have discredited yourself more times than I can count. But you're helping to prove wahooskipper's point about an extremist who chooses to put a certain spin on this issue just to make a straw man argument for the sake of arguing. Anyone who supports such tactics isn't serious about solving this problem at all. It's simply an exercise in futility for you. Anyone who takes you seriously is to be pittied.
Originally Posted By ecdc Reminder: While the NRA and its defenders tries to misdirect the issue to mental illness, the mentally ill are much, much more likely to be victims of violence, not perpetrators of it.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<"Or is America too dense to look outside it's own territory to see what the rest of the civilized world is doing to deal with out of control gun rights??" Too dense, and too insecure, frightened and timid.>> Other countries don't have the second amendment to deal with... you really can't compare the situations. Yes, most of us know that the amendment was never intended to mean the individual right to privately bear arms, but unfortunately the Supreme Court did not agree. Much could be done to adopt some middle of the road regulations, but that will never happen. A Democrat voter will never deny a Democrat candidate his vote just because they refused to support gun control. But the NRA will deny them campaign contributions if they support it. Who is the politician going to listen to? Until those supporting gun control form some type of VERY WELL FUNDED PAC to reward the politicians who support gun control; you are just pissing in the wind. Put your money where your mouth is.
Originally Posted By utahjosh < Yes, most of us know that the amendment was never intended to mean the individual right to privately bear arms, but unfortunately the Supreme Court did not agree.> I don't think it's as clear cut as you say here. From my perspective "most of us" DO believe each individual has a right to own at least a rifle or something. The Supreme Court didn't mess that one up.
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: I believe that America's forefathers were wise enough to know that America's government was vulnerable to becoming corrupt. They put a law in place so that private citizens would be able to protect themselves from potential corruption--which might develop into a dictatorship. While many are in denial that such a thing could ever actually happen in the Land of the free, Home of the brave, it's certainly very possible and the author's of the American constitution realized this. ORWEN: They sure did! And from what we've been reading lately, there are too many so-called 'Americans' who now think the constitution is out-dated these days. That's the scary thought! ORGOCH: Got communists and Nazi's in yer camp?
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "ORDDU: SingleParkPassHolder, you are nothing more than a cyber bully. So you have discredited yourself more times than I can count. But you're helping to prove wahooskipper's point about an extremist who chooses to put a certain spin on this issue just to make a straw man argument for the sake of arguing. Anyone who supports such tactics isn't serious about solving this problem at all. It's simply an exercise in futility for you. Anyone who takes you seriously is to be pittied." Uh-huh.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>I believe<< Your belief is largely erroneous. You are, as they say, entitled to your own opinion (or beliefs) but not your own facts. The Founders were not a monolith and they had different beliefs about different things. They were also a different people from a different time, culture, and place. We like to think of them just like us, but they weren't. I don't post on how to brew potions, please don't post on history if you don't know about it. Also, still waiting on those links.... If the problem is extremism, then finding it on both sides in our government should be easy. Where did Obama announce he wants to ban guns?
Originally Posted By Dabob2 ecdc is right. While cable news shows often pit two extreme views against each other (which is probably what wahoo is reacting to), it's not quite right to say "The problem with the gun issue is that everyone argues it from the extremes." No one in Congress proposed anything extreme at all. Same for any state legislature that I know of. It's all been very moderate stuff. Often that the vast majority of gun owners or even NRA members support (!). But the NRA leadership - who, let's be clear, claim to represent gun owners but actually represent the gun industry - have REAL political bullying down to a science and won't allow even the most modest, widely-supported proposals to pass. Meanwhile, a few states do have a few modest restrictions in place, and they do help: <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/06/us/guns-laws-mortality/">http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/06/...rtality/</a> "States with the most gun laws experienced a lower overall mortality rate from firearms than did states with the fewest laws, researchers in Boston reported in a study published Wednesday. "States that have the most laws have a 42% decreased rate of firearm fatalities compared to those with the least laws," said Dr. Eric W. Fleegler, an attending physician in pediatric emergency medicine at Boston Children's Hospital and an assistant professor of pediatrics at Harvard Medical School. Those states with the most gun laws saw a 40% reduction in firearm-related homicides and a 37% reduction in firearm-related suicides, he said in a telephone interview." Now correlation is not causation, and later in the article they go into that a little, but it's well worth reading this article.
Originally Posted By ecdc Exactly right. And here's the irony: no one can point to a single extreme proposal from the far-left that's managed to pass (such as banning all guns), but we have plenty of examples of extreme far-right proposals for guns across the country that high-level federal leaders and state leaders have considered and even implemented. States have considered or passed laws to: Arm teachers Allow guns in schools Allow guns in bars Allow guns in airports (before security) Loosen or eliminate other gun restrictions It is true that one side is being extremist; the other side isn't.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Your belief is largely erroneous. You are, as they say, entitled to your own opinion (or beliefs) but not your own facts. The Founders were not a monolith and they had different beliefs about different things. They were also a different people from a different time, culture, and place. We like to think of them just like us, but they weren't. I don't post on how to brew potions, please don't post on history if you don't know about it. Also, still waiting on those links.... If the problem is extremism, then finding it on both sides in our government should be easy. Where did Obama announce he wants to ban guns??" And this is all part and parcel of my problem with the poster. As if the witch thing isn't wacky enough, the arguments (?) put forth by him eventually devolve into genuine tin foil conspiracy theories that couldn't be taken seriously no matter who was spouting them.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer When will the NRA acknowledge the first phrase in the Second Amendment? That is the phrase that the Supreme Court ignored in their recent rulings, but had understood perfectly well up to that point.
Originally Posted By Tikiduck If I were to choose examples of how our political system has been corrupted and manipulated, the NRA would be at the top of the list. Right up there with defense contractors, big oil, insurance companies, and the finance industry.
Originally Posted By ecdc This guy is something else. Godspeed, friend. Keep channeling your pain into the good fight. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cl5GpfXrgIo
Originally Posted By Tikiduck What eats at me is that the murderer is getting far more press than Martinez. You think Fox news would ever run a clip like that? Just a guess, but I would wager if they do address the situation, it will be all about the killer and his Youtube rant.
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORGOCH: Yup! They got Nazi's and communists in the camp fer sure! The thing is, I don't know if they even KNOWS they's that way--er if'n they do know an' just don't admit it. But it sure is scary!!! No use tryin' ta have nothin' more ta do with 'em since that's the case! ORDDU: A while back someone asked where all those with opposing views had gone, since they weren't responding to any of the outrageous beliefs put forth in this section of the Laughing Place Pond. It should be obvious, by now, that they'd be wasting their time here and they know it. This section has become a dumping ground for erroneous conclusions based on all manner of lies and deceptions. The truth is of no value to some of you. ORWEN: Even when the proof is handed out it just gets ignored. So why bother? ORDDU: For those who think ANY of the current politicians--both Democratic and Republican--are worthy of trusting, you will eventually rue the day you supported either of those camps. They are both evil and rotten to the core. By the time you figure this out--if you ever do--it will be too late. You will be swept away with all of them in what is to come.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/85/ManWearingTinFoilHat.jpg">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wi...lHat.jpg</a>
Originally Posted By ecdc >>ORWEN: Even when the proof is handed out it just gets ignored. So why bother?<< I recall you citing a source precisely once: I highly discredited book on the "mysterious deaths" surrounding the Kennedy assassination. Except when we look at the names and causes of death, they are not mysterious or nefarious (and in some cases, the people aren't even dead), so not much mystery. For someone who tells us how obvious it all is for people just willing to see, you sure are light on links, evidence, and arguments, but heavy on special pleading, tu quoque, and other logical fallacies.
Originally Posted By GRANNYfanny38 I am here on this big Place you you passhouser leave Alone A which and sis. You stop it Now
