Originally Posted By EighthDwarf I think the point is that, of all the issues facing our country, there are conservatives that consider issues such as gay marriage and abortion as being the most important. So they would vote for a candidate because of their stance on those issues - even though the same candidate may have policies that would hurt American jobs and our economy. Not a leap in my opinion.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<Oh, and Josh, when I said that it is my belief that "believers" are nuts. I fully expect you to feel that I am nuts for not worshiping your water walker or the flying nun or whatever it is that you believe in. I'm OK with that.>> I can't speak for Josh, but I certainly do not feel that way, not even when you resort to insults (i.e. flying nun) as a put down. You might be mean and bitter, but you certainly are not "nuts".
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<I think the point is that, of all the issues facing our country, there are conservatives that consider issues such as gay marriage and abortion as being the most important. So they would vote for a candidate because of their stance on those issues - even though the same candidate may have policies that would hurt American jobs and our economy.>> I understand, which is why the GOP can no longer count on my vote. 8 years of the gov't being at war with my family are more than enough.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "X I can believe - he sometimes throws politeness out the window, and proudly so in his book. Who were the others?" I have. I firmly believe, what with all we know about Palin, and besides her views of rape and abortion I won't go into the rest, you have to be an idiot to support someone like her for such an important job. And I've qualified that as well. It's one thing to disagree about abortion- I can respect the views of someone who is not pro choice but does make exceptions for rape and incest. I don't agree, but I can see where they're coming from. But Palin, her view on abortion is simply off the charts for me. And not one person here who is pro-Palin has had the courage to say they can look a female loved one in the eye and tell her that they support someone who would make her carry a baby from a rape to term. Couple that with the fact she's partnered with the oldest candidate in history with a myriad of very serious health concerns who is seeking the most stressful job on the planet, and yeah, you'd have to be an idiot to help support the very real possibility she could inherit that job. It is sheer folly to suggest the VP isn't that important, especially in this election. Once McCain picked Palin, that was it. He whored hinmself out to the far right, and it tells me he'll be beholden to them as long as he would be in the job. No amount of denial will change that inevitability, especially in light of all his other moves this election cycle. There's not one tangible thing a McCain defender can reasonably point to that would rebut that assertion.
Originally Posted By ecdc There are some compelling arguments that Jesus was not even a historical figure. I tend to think he probably was, but haven't looked closely at the question. But I am not trying to be insulting when I compare God to Santa Claus, for example. And this is the hypocrisy of religion, from my perspective. I'm expected to be tolerant of Josh as he explains that he believes homosexuality is a sin, and by extension, gays are sinners. Believers can say just about anything and then if criticized, they shrug it off and say, "Well, that's my beliefs." But if I share my belief that Jesus *is* like Santa Claus for adults, it's insensitive. I use those analogies because it explains that I do believe that God is a fiction like Santa Claus. I can say I don't believe, sure, but it's not as accurate a portrayal of my feelings. It ought to be a two-way street.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip ^^^ <X I can believe - he sometimes throws politeness out the window, and proudly so in his book. Who were the others?>> See? I win. Arrogant as usual. ;-)
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder In that case, I'll take arrogance over ignorance any day, as long as we're going down that road. For some reason, you seem to be choosing to ignore the distinctions being made here. But have at it. To aupport support simply because others vehemently say not to is a pretty lame reason to do so.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "I understand, which is why the GOP can no longer count on my vote. 8 years of the gov't being at war with my family are more than enough." Amen. That should be plastered on TV, radio and billboards everywhere.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<But I am not trying to be insulting when I compare God to Santa Claus, for example.>> I understand, but it will be perceived that way. And like I said earlier, saying things like this will not win "converts" to the Democratic party, which seems Hell bent on driving struggling, conservative, religious middle class voters into the arms of the wolf in sheep's clothing called the GOP.
Originally Posted By gurgitoy2 I suppose the same could be said in reverse though. I've seen many topics here calling liberals/Democrats names for not buying into the GOP talking points. People have even said that you couldn't be a Christian and a Democrat. I think that is just as insulting and certainly not going to win converts to the GOP side. It goes both ways here...
Originally Posted By ecdc >>I understand, but it will be perceived that way. And like I said earlier, saying things like this will not win "converts" to the Democratic party, which seems Hell bent on driving struggling, conservative, religious middle class voters into the arms of the wolf in sheep's clothing called the GOP.<< You're right, of course. And it's probably why Obama has tried to appeal to people of faith, even if just to quell those fears. I guess I just think more moderate religious people need to be willing to call religious extremists out. Then they can also tell the other side to quit using analogies to Santa or the Easter Bunny. It's getting better, but it still seems one-sided to this non-believer.
Originally Posted By dshyates Well, I am used to being attacked for my religious beliefs. There is not a church I can point to to justify my beliefs, and NO ONE I know holds even remotely similar beliefs as mine. Everyone I know claims to be part of some organized religion whether Christian, Jewish, Catholic, Muslim, whatever. No one I know claims to be agnostic. Even though a lot of them are, they all claim a religion to fit in with friends and family. I don't believe in an afterlife or even a soul. I believe in consciousness, but not a soul. I believe the gift of life is THE one and only life you get. Justice and reward comes in this life, and life is not fair. I am a Humanist and I believe that we don't murder people because it is fundamentally wrong to take everything someone else could ever have. Not because of some divine punishment in a lake of fire. It always blows my mind when religious folks ask me why I don't murder people since I am not religious. The thought that religious folks don't understand that murder is fundamentally wrong on a human level makes my brain hurt. And scares the crap out of me that the only reason that religious folks don't take their shotguns to the mall for some target practice is because they are afraid of going to hell.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<People have even said that you couldn't be a Christian and a Democrat.>> Outside of Beaumandy, WHO??? Has DouglasDubh said that? Has DlandDug said that? Has utahjosh said that? Has Kimber said that? Has Woody said that? Have I said that? Face it. People voting republican take FAR MORE PERSONAL ABUSE on this board than people voting democrat. If you can't even own up to that, why should we believe any damned thing you have to say?
Originally Posted By utahjosh dshyates, I don't know very many "religious folk" like the ones you are talking about. And I know lots of 'em.
Originally Posted By dshyates Hey Josh, I have a "snake-handlin'" church about 4 miles from my house. We can go down and kiss a rattler if ya' like. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMP-CQ_bvSM" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...-CQ_bvSM</a> OK, don't laugh, that really is where I live. Forgive my cynical attitude.
Originally Posted By dshyates Soory guys, I am in a really foul mood tonight, and it may be showing in my posts.
Originally Posted By talaner >>>"Face it. People voting republican take FAR MORE PERSONAL ABUSE on this board than people voting democrat."<<< True that... According to “SingleParkPassholder”, I’m an idiot. And according to “Gadzuux,” If the majority of voters don't vote his way...well then, the American electoral system is absolutely rigged! Ya’ know, I think it's good to have a healthy ego, but that doesn’t explain why this board is so overflowing with uncivilized arrogant behavior? Perhaps the regular folks stay away from this board because they just don't like being called idiots. But then, we’re just regular folk, so what’s the harm… Eh?
Originally Posted By mawnck >>Perhaps the regular folks stay away from this board because they just don't like being called idiots. But then, we’re just regular folk, so what’s the harm… Eh?<< Yep. Regular folk are just too thin-skinned to hang out in World Events. So who's your favorite dwarf? I'm gonna guess Whiny.
